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and there it is.... (Read 221 times)
LostArtist
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #15 - 07/06/16 at 19:40:21
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/06/16 at 13:53:44:



getting around technical difficulties often caused by EXTREMELY cumbersome and obtrusive government software????      so it isn't so!!!!!!
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #16 - 07/07/16 at 13:55:30
 
Just drove home from KC and listened to pretty much the entire congressional hearing from FBI director Comey.

After listening to his answers, I agree with his decision, maybe 75%.

He's right when he says the law, not as it is written, but as it has been used for past 50 years, demands a certain level of 'intent' before prosecution is recommended. (It was used once he said in a similar case that was decided in a plea bargain) He found no direct evidence of intent to purposely leak classified information or to evade the FBI in searching for answers. In this case, ignorance of the law is in fact a defense.

However, I think that and this is a big f'ing however, those caught in criminal acts tend to do what they can to cover their acts. Hilary's actions in deleting emails and directing her attorneys to do so,  could be construed as an attempt to hide the contents of those emails. Also, you could say using an unauthorized server that you had complete control of is in fact 'intend' to violate the law. But Comey didn't see it that way.

I also believe him 100% when he says no one from the White House, Justice Department or Clinton campaign ever tried to influence him.

However, I also think this might be true: think about John Roberts’s decision on Obamacare. He basically said he wasn't going to find it unconstitutional because he wasn’t going to end a Presidency before it got started. Obama was elected promoting this idea and if the people didn’t want it, they could unelect him. So instead, he said the fine imposed by Obamacare was really a tax. Perhaps Roberts thought yes, of course it's unconstitutional, but reasoned if people knew it was a tax and if they united against that, they'd elect a new congress to rewrite the law. Many thought it was a cowardly way out of inserting himself into the middle of history.

So, here’s my point: had Comey recommend to charge Hilary, that effectively ends her Presidential aspirations. So in essence, he very well could have, single handedly, decided who becomes President of the United States. I think its possible, consciously or unconsciously, he couldn’t bring himself to do that. Instead, he lays out the case of how inept, corrupt and dishonest Hilary Clinton really is and will leave it to the electorate to decide.

And by the way, listening to him discuss the actual facts of the case and what he found, it's shocking how dangerous her actions really were. The steps she took to operate that private server can lead you to only two possible conclusions, and neither are good for Hilary.

1) she's a crooked, lying thief who needed a private server to protect the illegal activities going on at the Clinton Foundation.

2) she's completely inept and stupid. As Comey said over and over, he was surprise at her lack of sophistication.

Either way, she cannot be President.  
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: and there it is....
Reply #17 - 07/07/16 at 14:19:29
 
I'll tell her...  Huh


I should call Joe too... he might need to change his plans... Grin
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #18 - 07/07/16 at 18:03:46
 
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #19 - 07/07/16 at 18:54:51
 
WebsterMark wrote on 07/07/16 at 13:55:30:
Just drove home from KC and listened to pretty much the entire congressional hearing from FBI director Comey.

After listening to his answers, I agree with his decision, maybe 75%.

He's right when he says the law, not as it is written, but as it has been used for past 50 years, demands a certain level of 'intent' before prosecution is recommended. (It was used once he said in a similar case that was decided in a plea bargain) He found no direct evidence of intent to purposely leak classified information or to evade the FBI in searching for answers. In this case, ignorance of the law is in fact a defense.

However, I think that and this is a big f'ing however, those caught in criminal acts tend to do what they can to cover their acts. Hilary's actions in deleting emails and directing her attorneys to do so,  could be construed as an attempt to hide the contents of those emails. Also, you could say using an unauthorized server that you had complete control of is in fact 'intend' to violate the law. But Comey didn't see it that way.

I also believe him 100% when he says no one from the White House, Justice Department or Clinton campaign ever tried to influence him.

However, I also think this might be true: think about John Roberts’s decision on Obamacare. He basically said he wasn't going to find it unconstitutional because he wasn’t going to end a Presidency before it got started. Obama was elected promoting this idea and if the people didn’t want it, they could unelect him. So instead, he said the fine imposed by Obamacare was really a tax. Perhaps Roberts thought yes, of course it's unconstitutional, but reasoned if people knew it was a tax and if they united against that, they'd elect a new congress to rewrite the law. Many thought it was a cowardly way out of inserting himself into the middle of history.

So, here’s my point: had Comey recommend to charge Hilary, that effectively ends her Presidential aspirations. So in essence, he very well could have, single handedly, decided who becomes President of the United States. I think its possible, consciously or unconsciously, he couldn’t bring himself to do that. Instead, he lays out the case of how inept, corrupt and dishonest Hilary Clinton really is and will leave it to the electorate to decide.

And by the way, listening to him discuss the actual facts of the case and what he found, it's shocking how dangerous her actions really were. The steps she took to operate that private server can lead you to only two possible conclusions, and neither are good for Hilary.

1) she's a crooked, lying thief who needed a private server to protect the illegal activities going on at the Clinton Foundation.

2) she's completely inept and stupid. As Comey said over and over, he was surprise at her lack of sophistication.

Either way, she cannot be President.  


Gee Web, I am surprised that you agreed that much, from what I perceive of your right leanings....
I only looked at snippets, and without context, I think I might have read more into it than what it was, if I am to believe you.

I have 2 questions maybe you can answer, yes?

1. Why was the IT guy given immunity then if it/he wasn't at issue?
2. Regarding where Comey said he could prove no intent. Isn't the charge, Murder 1, based on "intent" of premeditation, where a trial and evidenced is weighed by a jury, falling short of its "intent", then the charged is released from of prosecution.....
Not innocent mind you, but they prosecuting party did not meet the threshold of "intentions" to convict on a M1, yes?  

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Re: and there it is....
Reply #20 - 07/07/16 at 19:47:40
 
I'm the original fair and balanced guy......

1. Why was the IT guy given immunity then if it/he wasn't at issue?

He was asked that and said two things. 1) he couldn't go into too much detail of the specifics of the immunity deal for confidentiality reasons.
2) the immunity deal was granted for the same reasons it's granted in other cases, he said they give immunity when they feel there is no other way to get the information. I assume what he can't say is the guy's attorney believed Hilary would be prosecuted and convicted so he was trying to protect his client and got the best deal for him. If Hilary had been convicted, the IT guy could have been brought up on charges as well because I assume he must have signed the same documents as Hilary with regards to acknowledging he would follow protocol with regards to classified documents. If he signed that and set up a separate server, he would have potentially been guilty like her.


2. Regarding where Comey said he could prove no intent. Isn't the charge, Murder 1, based on "intent" of premeditation, where a trial and evidenced is weighed by a jury, falling short of its "intent", then the charged is released from of prosecution.....
Not innocent mind you, but they prosecuting party did not meet the threshold of "intentions" to convict on a M1, yes?  

A prosecutor brings charges when he believes evidence exists a crime was committed. Because of the language of the law, he had to show intent. In his opinion, he says they found no evidence of intent. This is where I disagree with him to a certain degree. I think the very act of setting up a separate server is intent to retain classified documents outside of their approved domicile.

As I read some more and think about it, my 75% agreement is dropping to around 55%. I think he should have recommended the DOJ prosecute simply because the very act of setting up an user account on a non-government server is the same as taking classified documents home and leaving them in your house.

Now our friend Sew will likely want to argue the false comparison that other Secy of States did the same, but that's not entirely true. No one went to the trouble to set up a SERVER at their home. As Comey pointed out, the security on her home server was not even as good as what's on publicly available domiciles like Gmail. No one has done what Hilary did and the more I think about it, that in and of itself is enough to pursue further.

But, Hilary is not out of hot water just yet. She testified under oath to Congress she 1) never sent classified emails which the investigation proves she did.  2) She told congress she set the server up because she only used one device, but in fact during the investigation it was discovered she used multiple ones.  3) She said no official emails were deleted when in fact 110 'work' emails were recovered that she thought were deleted. Comey said if asked, the FBI would be obliged to investigate potential charges of perjury before a congressional committee.

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Re: and there it is....
Reply #21 - 07/07/16 at 20:06:03
 
WebsterMark wrote on 07/07/16 at 19:47:40:
I'm the original fair and balanced guy......

1. Why was the IT guy given immunity then if it/he wasn't at issue?

He was asked that and said two things. 1) he couldn't go into too much detail of the specifics of the immunity deal for confidentiality reasons.
2) the immunity deal was granted for the same reasons it's granted in other cases, he said they give immunity when they feel there is no other way to get the information. I assume what he can't say is the guy's attorney believed Hilary would be prosecuted and convicted so he was trying to protect his client and got the best deal for him. If Hilary had been convicted, the IT guy could have been brought up on charges as well because I assume he must have signed the same documents as Hilary with regards to acknowledging he would follow protocol with regards to classified documents. If he signed that and set up a separate server, he would have potentially been guilty like her.


2. Regarding where Comey said he could prove no intent. Isn't the charge, Murder 1, based on "intent" of premeditation, where a trial and evidenced is weighed by a jury, falling short of its "intent", then the charged is released from of prosecution.....
Not innocent mind you, but they prosecuting party did not meet the threshold of "intentions" to convict on a M1, yes?  

A prosecutor brings charges when he believes evidence exists a crime was committed. Because of the language of the law, he had to show intent. In his opinion, he says they found no evidence of intent. This is where I disagree with him to a certain degree. I think the very act of setting up a separate server is intent to retain classified documents outside of their approved domicile.

As I read some more and think about it, my 75% agreement is dropping to around 55%. I think he should have recommended the DOJ prosecute simply because the very act of setting up an user account on a non-government server is the same as taking classified documents home and leaving them in your house.

Now our friend Sew will likely want to argue the false comparison that other Secy of States did the same, but that's not entirely true. No one went to the trouble to set up a SERVER at their home. As Comey pointed out, the security on her home server was not even as good as what's on publicly available domiciles like Gmail. No one has done what Hilary did and the more I think about it, that in and of itself is enough to pursue further.

But, Hilary is not out of hot water just yet. She testified under oath to Congress she 1) never sent classified emails which the investigation proves she did.  2) She told congress she set the server up because she only used one device, but in fact during the investigation it was discovered she used multiple ones.  3) She said no official emails were deleted when in fact 110 'work' emails were recovered that she thought were deleted. Comey said if asked, the FBI would be obliged to investigate potential charges of perjury before a congressional committee.



Thank you web....

I see the state department is reopening its investigation too.
I guess they feel slighted, or lied to, as well?
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #22 - 07/07/16 at 20:18:00
 
I'm afraid Comey, who seems like a good guy, is going to be yet another soul sacrificed on the altar of Clinton.
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #23 - 07/08/16 at 03:53:24
 
WebsterMark wrote on 07/07/16 at 20:18:00:
I'm afraid Comey, who seems like a good guy, is going to be yet another soul sacrificed on the altar of Clinton.


Well maybe the Clinton's are just the best gamers ever......
Its easy to sit back and fit the players after the results, but at this stage of the game, I can't honestly assess that all their moves resulted because of partisan relationships, willingly......
No, I think the Clinton's, the hicks from the sticks, are ardent and savvy, like a extremely street wise thug, picking your pockets, while embracing your virtues  Grin  

Politically speaking, a GREAT asset to possess, in a crooked and rigged system, that most of its citizenry are ignorant to its dealings.....

This ability could be devastating to our nation, if elected, or brilliant, its a coin toss.
If she tries this on a global scale, with positive results for the USA, in those dealings, watch out if the scammed, awaken to the truth, the proverbial hell to pay, might be demanded of our nation, by our so called allies, not to mention, foes  Shocked
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #24 - 07/08/16 at 04:15:36
 
Is Charles Krauthamer of the Washington Post as Savage rider reading our posts because I'm reading the paper this morning and his column is exactly what I said. He compared John Roberts Obamacare decision and Comey's decision just like I was thinking. Comey did not want to be the one to decide who the President of the United States is.

I guess I should quit my job and go write for a paper...... not.
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #25 - 07/08/16 at 05:10:27
 
WebsterMark wrote on 07/08/16 at 04:15:36:
Is Charles Krauthamer of the Washington Post as Savage rider reading our posts because I'm reading the paper this morning and his column is exactly what I said. He compared John Roberts Obamacare decision and Comey's decision just like I was thinking. Comey did not want to be the one to decide who the President of the United States is.

I guess I should quit my job and go write for a paper...... not.


You want an atta boy  Grin

It's interesting theory, but it circumvents our system of governing doesn't it?
Do 2 wrongs ever make it right?

I get it, and I wish all the infighting,and hypocrisy, of both parties, when their firmly held beliefs swing 180 degrees depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Pulling strings can and do get tangled, and it seems it just pulls all of us down deeper into the quagmire.
Maybe, just maybe, faintly, Trumps no holds barred smack talk is like a hand to a child's butt....
We don't want to spank our kids, but spare the rod, often their ways of wrong only grow more bold....
Dang, I am not sure if this is his plan, or if he is just some weird dude, but it does open up a possibility of maybe, in my thinking  Shocked
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #26 - 07/08/16 at 08:25:30
 
Radio show caller said

Comey let her slide, But, laid out Tons of reasons why she should be indicted. Typically they don't explain what they found, they just say they are not taking action. Comey stressed that a Reasonable prosecutor wouldn't go forward. Really? Having SEEN them go after others with less, what is it that makes it Reasonable to Not go forward? Well, IF she is indicted, Obama just pardons her..
Once Lynch compromised the whole thing, what options were left?
The caller said that he thinks Comey could see that an indictment would go nowhere and laid out why she Should be indicted.. And the only way she is possibly ever going to be held accountable is for Trump to win, then He see to it that she gets what is coming to her.
Not Comeys words, but the best guess as to why.

But, Comey was involved in other things that Somehow managed to
Magically Work Out for a Clinton.  
The system is rigged, obviously enough.
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #27 - 07/08/16 at 15:59:19
 
I recently made a few serious points that are going unanswered.
Since I Know what that feels like and since I see and agree with this, I will at least address it.


I have 2 questions maybe you can answer, yes?

1. Why was the IT guy given immunity then if it/he wasn't at issue?

This got Lost in the fog. Since his testimony wasn't used,why did they bother?
This is the Very Loud Silence..
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #28 - 07/08/16 at 16:17:42
 
I didnt see your points or I would have.

Well, they were investigating and needed info from him. Like I said, I think the guy's lawyer was worried so he asked for immunity and got it.
They asked him questions and I assume that's where they got all the info about how poorly the server was set up.

I imagine that happens. They give someone immunity, interview them, but turns out their info didn't end up being the difference.
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Re: and there it is....
Reply #29 - 07/08/16 at 16:41:04
 
And yet, Cumeater laid out a load of reasons to indict.
In a crooked game it's not easy to know what value each player really has. An Honest investigation may well have utilized the ITguy a bunch.. But they didn't Want to hang her,, as is made obvious by the lame Investigation..
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