SuzukiSavage.com - Understeering bike or understeering rider?

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider? Reply #15 - 07/05/16 at 17:40:05 Chikkin strips on the tires on the bike that nobody can pass don't mean much. No chikken strips on last place? Who cares? To be, not to Seem to be.
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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 5100 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider? Reply #16 - 07/05/16 at 17:55:14 Yep I prefer to ride the tire and save that little strip for when I need it. Not having a chicken strip or always riding the edge reduces your margin of error , I'll leave that to the pros & young guns. Especially now that I found out getting hit by a car/suv really hurts.
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ohiomoto

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Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #17 - 07/06/16 at 05:42:17

gizzo wrote on 07/05/16 at 17:37:08:

ohiomoto wrote on 07/05/16 at 07:59:42:

Make sure your technique is solid.

I generally like to ride the outside edge of the seat (little less body lean than bike lean) and use counter steering to control the amount of lean the bike has (pushing the inside bar down and forward). Move your shoulders forward to enhance front wheel traction.

I feel I can control the motorcycle a bit better on the street than simply leaning and hanging off the inside. Maybe it's the motocross in me, but that's what I like on this bike. Excessive body lean and hanging off the inside doesn't seem to work all that great with this bike IMO.

(NOT ME)
http://i42.tinypic.com/2am25x.jpg

That's a weird body position. Like you said, that's MX style where you get on the edge of the seat to force the tyre to bite in. On the road, he'd do better to lean to the inside, drop his inside shoulder (automatically countersteering the bike) and get his head down. He'd be going around just as fast or faster, with less lean angle and more grip available. That's some wicked lean angle though. He'd get big ups at the next cafe for his zero chicken strips. Roll Eyes

FWIW i find hanging off the inside works great on the Savage. Check this cat out Cool

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/july/video-how-to-ride-a-harley-david...

I'm not saying that you can't succeed with more commitment and body lean, but I strongly disagree that this is what the OP needs to be working on. Especially since they haven't ruled out the possibility that the bike isn't handling as is should. The OP is already having issues controlling his line. Top speed out on the street isn't what he/she should be striving for at this point. Hanging off the inside requires more commitment and skill in my opinion.

I find the technique I mentioned allows for easier line adjustments throughout the turn as needed. Sort of like, well, racing off road. I feel that it would be a safer way to learn how to control lines and sort out a bike. Of course these are my opinions based on my experience.

For the record, I DO NOT have road race experience. (Though I can hang off the inside of a bike.) Maybe I'd feel different if I had.

Ultimately, it sounds like the OP is doing the right thing. Try some different riding techniques and see what works best for them and the bike they are on.

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Dave

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Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #18 - 07/06/16 at 06:04:15

Ruttly wrote on 07/05/16 at 17:55:14:

Yep I prefer to ride the tire and save that little strip for when I need it.
Not having a chicken strip or always riding the edge reduces your margin of error , I'll leave that to the pros & young guns. Especially now that I found out getting hit by a car/suv really hurts.

We rode at the Dragon with MMRanch's young nephew....and he told me I was slowing down for the corners too much. I showed him the edges of my tires, and I pointed to the 1/4" of chicken strip on the edges of my tires. I said "see that little strip of unused rubber on the edges......that is what keeps me from taking a trip to the hospital. It is that little extra margin that allows me to stay upright". Less than 24 hours later we were picking him up at the hospital........he got separated from us and went to ride the Dragon alone......and he went into a corner too fast and low sided (but his chicken strips were gone!).

Folks with Sport Bikes and really grippy tires may be able to lean their bike waaaay over and use all the tread surface - but on public roads the pavement is never perfect, and you should never corner at your 100% maximum. It is not uncommon to see scraped leathers and bodywork on those folks who push the limits on a regular basis.

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ohiomoto

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Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #19 - 07/06/16 at 06:12:09

And a word of caution.

I knew a retired police officer who took up road racing. He took some courses, did some track days, etc. Later that summer he put himself under a car at one of our metro parks. He survived but he got busted up to the point where he couldn't ride anymore and he had to give up skiing and golfing, basically messed up his retirement plans. He told me he misjudged a corner, went left of center and laid it down trying to recover.

Public roads is not the place to practice road racing. Be careful out there.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #20 - 07/06/16 at 07:40:46

Should people be mentally capable of grasping the difference between dropping a bike on wet grass or sand at a stop and an At speed crash, I can say that I had more fun, explored the bikes and my own abilities more than on any other bike save for the dirt bikes people let me ride.. And I never crashed it..
The bikes own limitations kept me from going too crazy.

If you're having trouble with your lines, yes, Do slow down and work on it at lower speeds. The right peg trapped my foot several times, hard enough to hurt, making me pull the foot out, it Will lean. But Strive for the Line, Ride your line,then adjust speed. And Feel of the bike. And any curves you get friendly with, if you slammed through hours ago and you're back, Don't Assume that asphalt is still clear.. I decided to study a favorite curve and discovered spilled paint.. it's a public road, no safety crews, Ride to survive..

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Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider? Reply #21 - 07/06/16 at 16:47:35 ohiomoto wrote on 07/06/16 at 06:12:09: Public roads is not the place to practice road racing. Be careful out there. justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/06/16 at 07:40:46: Ride to survive.. Amen to that!
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gizzo

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Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #22 - 07/06/16 at 16:49:37

ohiomoto wrote on 07/06/16 at 05:42:17:

I'm not saying that you can't succeed with more commitment and body lean, but I strongly disagree that this is what the OP needs to be working on. Especially since they haven't ruled out the possibility that the bike isn't handling as is should. The OP is already having issues controlling his line. Top speed out on the street isn't what he/she should be striving for at this point. Hanging off the inside requires more commitment and skill in my opinion.

I find the technique I mentioned allows for easier line adjustments throughout the turn as needed. Sort of like, well, racing off road. I feel that it would be a safer way to learn how to control lines and sort out a bike. Of course these are my opinions based on my experience.

For the record, I DO NOT have road race experience. (Though I can hang off the inside of a bike.) Maybe I'd feel different if I had.

Ultimately, it sounds like the OP is doing the right thing. Try some different riding techniques and see what works best for them and the bike they are on.

That's cool. I was just pointing out that they guy in the photo has an awkward style and that he'd have been better off not sitting upright on the bike and that he'd have more tyre in reserve if he rode differently. Getting up and away from the turn causes the rider to automatically countersteer the wrong way, makes a higher workload because he has to consciously counter countersteer, while also losing ground clearance. The chicken strip comment was suggesting that he'd be able to impress the Gixxer Bros at the next cafe, who pay attention to strips, or lack thereof. I'm not suggesting that strips should be used as measure of rider skill. Far from it.

But, to each their own, and whatever helps you ride safely and with well placed confidence is a good thing. I think the OP knows how to ride and was asking for chassis advice more than style tips. I bet he has that covered.

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