Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Understeering bike or understeering rider? (Read 220 times)
zipidachimp
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1412
surrey, b.c.
Gender: male
Understeering bike or understeering rider?
07/04/16 at 02:47:34
 
Took my tracker out for a run yesterday, through every corner, it wanted to run wide, even crossing the yellow, once with traffic coming!
I'm going back to the stock 10 1/2" shocks in place of the longer ones to see if I can correct this. Front end is stock. Any ideas? Shocked
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Gary_in_NJ
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

LS650 Cafe Racer

Posts: 2633
Amongst the Twisty Roads
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #1 - 07/04/16 at 05:20:13
 
There are about 100 variables in play here. Simple things from air pressure in the tires to structural things like rake and trail all effect the handling. Tire profile, wheel base, sping rate, damping, center of gravity, how tight you have the steering nut, wheel alignment, rider technique all have an impact on handling.

Make changes one thing at a time.

What exactly did you do to the bike to make it a "tracker". This is a term that means different things to different people. My guess is you have a wide front tire with a high aspect ratio. That would cause a bike to understeer.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 07/04/16 at 15:44:36 by Gary_in_NJ »  

A life-time student of motorcycling.
LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS
My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #2 - 07/04/16 at 06:49:20
 
Where are you looking?
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #3 - 07/04/16 at 08:23:01
 
Taller shocks should reduce the steering neck angle,making steering quicker,shorter shocks may be going in the wrong direction.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Online

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28884
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #4 - 07/04/16 at 09:28:58
 
I know what you're talking about zipi, there are days the stocker feels like she's riding in a groove.
And others she knows exactly where you want to go and just goes.
And no changes between those experiences.

you gotta listen to her and ride accordingly.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
zipidachimp
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1412
surrey, b.c.
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #5 - 07/04/16 at 11:33:49
 
both tires are '90' as in 140/90-15, 100/90-19, 28-30psi, shocks are 12 1/2", bars are tracker style with stock bottom risers, tracker seat. Centre of gravity is likely higher. I'll work on technique first.
Carb is really working well with larger jets. Intake noise at speed is pretty high with K&N cone.
With the sale of my Vulcan, this is now my only ride, have all summer to work on it. Cheers! Cool
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ohiomoto
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2770

Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #6 - 07/05/16 at 07:59:42
 
Make sure your technique is solid.  

I generally like to ride the outside edge of the seat (little less body lean than bike lean)  and use counter steering to control the amount of lean the bike has (pushing the inside bar down and forward).  Move your shoulders forward to enhance front wheel traction.

I feel I can control the motorcycle a bit better on the street than simply leaning and hanging off the inside.  Maybe it's the motocross in me, but that's what I like on this bike.  Excessive body lean and hanging off the inside doesn't seem to work all that great with this bike IMO.

(NOT ME)
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18098
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #7 - 07/05/16 at 08:22:26
 
The stock Savage has a lot of rake....and a lot of trail.  That makes the bike very stable in a straight line.

When your raise the back, and lower the front to get the Cafe' look, it reduces the rake and trail a bit - but it doesn't completely get it to the "sport bike" quickness in the corners.  My Cafe' bike does steer a lot stiffer than my other bikes...it does take more force to initiate a turn.

I don't know if the forward weight shift from the longer shocks causes the turning force to increase.....but trying to slolam along a dashed centerline is much harder on the Cafe' Savage than on the Ninja or NT700..
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #8 - 07/05/16 at 10:34:02
 
You might try higher pressure in your tires, say 30 f 36 rear .
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Ruttly
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Thumpers Rule

Posts: 5100
Manteca , CA
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #9 - 07/05/16 at 10:46:07
 
With my RYCA street tracker seems to handle quite well with not to much effort in turns however I have wider bars than a cafe model. I can feel some push when going into turns too hot,I ease off throttle a bit lean some more ease back into throttle and get it to drift thru the turn, down right scary drifting on a right turn doesn't scare me as much as going left. I think the only cure would be to derake the frame by cutting out some metal ,bend,weld and add some gussets for strength. But overall she has very good manors light & agile not bad considering it started life as a cruiser. Last night I upgraded front brake with Shawn's front brake kit just have to bleed system , should keep me from going into turns too hot in the first place. Stock front brake is weak even with good pads & braided hose. Front forks lowered with Ryca Kit & progressive springs with oil level set 5.5" from top of tube to oil , spring removed and fork collapsed, with about 1" removed from spring spacer,I used ATF. Rear shocks are progressive & tires are kenda k761s on 18" rims ,front 110/80 ,rear 120/80. Oh and a fork brace too !
Back to top
 
 

The Topic Terminator
  IP Logged
Gary_in_NJ
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

LS650 Cafe Racer

Posts: 2633
Amongst the Twisty Roads
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #10 - 07/05/16 at 11:40:29
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/04/16 at 06:49:20:
Where are you looking?


That's a technique that is hard to teach over the internet, but you are correct, it's one of the essential elements of good control. Counter-steering, body position, looking through the turn and commitment are the keys to properly turning the bike.
Back to top
 
 

A life-time student of motorcycling.
LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS
My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #11 - 07/05/16 at 11:51:26
 
It's not teachable even in a clinic, unless you paint targets on the road. If you're understeering , look inside the line you want.
It takes a real determination to force eyes away from where it Looks like you're going and focus on where you Want to go.
Once you are able to see far enough into the corner, look at where you want to be, if you're chronically wide, look inside the real target. I found some good corners,not too tight, and rode up the road, turned around, and just played in those corners a while. The best exit speeds came with less lean angle of the bike, me more down and inside,
My tires and your tires, different
My suspension, stock.
So, YMMV.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
zipidachimp
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1412
surrey, b.c.
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #12 - 07/05/16 at 13:47:13
 
Thanks for all the ideas. I re-installed the stock shocks to confirm the reason for the taller ones, will try these again then re-install the taller ones. In the end, it may come down to me and my technique. Practice, practice, prac...........! Cool
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Ruttly
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Thumpers Rule

Posts: 5100
Manteca , CA
Gender: male
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #13 - 07/05/16 at 17:37:05
 
Gary NJ  I learned that flat tracking to scrub off some speed and transition from straights into turns. Scares the hell out of me using it on the street, and don't advise trying to learn it on the street, but it's hellafun on a dirt track. Use it only to scrub off speed and or to stay in my lane and even then it has to feel just right to get away with it on the street. But it comes in handy when you need it !
Back to top
 
 

The Topic Terminator
  IP Logged
gizzo
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiCabbage. It's
Savage.

Posts: 1318
Australia
Re: Understeering bike or understeering rider?
Reply #14 - 07/05/16 at 17:37:08
 
ohiomoto wrote on 07/05/16 at 07:59:42:
Make sure your technique is solid.  

I generally like to ride the outside edge of the seat (little less body lean than bike lean)  and use counter steering to control the amount of lean the bike has (pushing the inside bar down and forward).  Move your shoulders forward to enhance front wheel traction.

I feel I can control the motorcycle a bit better on the street than simply leaning and hanging off the inside.  Maybe it's the motocross in me, but that's what I like on this bike.  Excessive body lean and hanging off the inside doesn't seem to work all that great with this bike IMO.

(NOT ME)
http://i42.tinypic.com/2am25x.jpg

That's a weird body position. Like you said, that's MX style where you get on the edge of the seat to force the tyre to bite in. On the road, he'd do better to lean to the inside, drop his inside shoulder (automatically countersteering the bike) and get his head down. He'd be going around just as fast or faster, with less lean angle and more grip available. That's some wicked lean angle though. He'd get big ups at the next cafe for his zero chicken strips.  Roll Eyes
FWIW i find hanging off the inside works great on the Savage. Check this cat out  Cool
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/july/video-how-to-ride-a-harley-david...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
09/25/24 at 14:19:55



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Understeering bike or understeering rider?


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.