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Dead horn (Read 168 times)
chzeckmate
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Dead horn
09/25/15 at 02:44:11
 
So, guy in an overpriced suit, driving a ridiculously large SUV decided he needed to answer a text while coming down the opposing side of the road near my home.  He came fully into my lane because he was so intently focussed on his messaging.  As he began to wander into my lane I applied both the brake and horn in equal measure.  A couple of seconds of blaring the horn and suddenly my horn went silent.  Fortunately, the guy looked up just in time to swerve back into his own lane.  All is well now, except for the horn.  So...I know I can get out the multimeter and poke around and find the solution myself, but I thought I'd ask if anyone might have any insight into it.  Thoughts?
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youzguyz
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #1 - 09/25/15 at 03:15:25
 
The horn is a bit of an odd duck.
It is always "hot" (with key on), and a ground gets applied through the horn switch to make it work.
The black wire w/ red stripe is the "always hot".
The black wire w/ blue stripe goes to the switch.
You can test the horn by taking the blue stripe wire off the horn, then shorting that horn terminal to ground.
If it works, the problem is in the switch.
If it doesn't, the problem is in the horn.
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #2 - 09/25/15 at 07:49:31
 
chzeckmate wrote on 09/25/15 at 02:44:11:
So, guy in an overpriced suit, driving a ridiculously large SUV decided he needed to answer a text while coming down the opposing side of the road near my home...


In this situation, the horn is useless.  Less than useless as it gives you a false impression that you're alerting the suit to your presence.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1360097806/0#0
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chzeckmate
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #3 - 09/25/15 at 08:45:39
 
I saw this at the harbor freight by my house http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/horns/2-piece-12-volt-elec...

The price is hard to beat...Any thoughts on this?
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Tocsik
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #4 - 09/25/15 at 09:09:10
 
You'll need to run a relay from the battery with an inline fuse.  I installed FIAMM El Grande's on my bike and love 'em.  Those HF's look similar but I can't speak to the quality.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #5 - 09/25/15 at 13:16:14
 
I swiped the horns and relay off a junk Taurus, (is that redundant?)
and put them on a little Honda civic. A grown up sound helps. Depending on your needs, looks, economy, ease of installation, there are tons of ways to go at it. Someone recently did a good looking ,dual horn install. I don't know where the thread is.Sorry..
And sometimes a big ball bearing is better than a horn.
I'm still trying to decide if I woulda turned around and followed him and explained to him what kinda bind he put me in . Glad he didn't mash you..
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chzeckmate
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #6 - 09/25/15 at 13:43:31
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/25/15 at 13:16:14:
I'm still trying to decide if I woulda turned around and followed him and explained to him what kinda bind he put me in . Glad he didn't mash you..


I considered it.

youzguyz wrote on 09/25/15 at 03:15:25:
The horn is a bit of an odd duck.
It is always "hot" (with key on), and a ground gets applied through the horn switch to make it work.
The black wire w/ red stripe is the "always hot".
The black wire w/ blue stripe goes to the switch.
You can test the horn by taking the blue stripe wire off the horn, then shorting that horn terminal to ground.
If it works, the problem is in the switch.
If it doesn't, the problem is in the horn.


Thanks for this. I'm working day and night these days, but I'll try to get to it in the wee hours tomorrow morning.  I'll post a report.

Tocsik wrote on 09/25/15 at 09:09:10:
You'll need to run a relay from the battery with an inline fuse.  I installed FIAMM El Grande's on my bike and love 'em.  Those HF's look similar but I can't speak to the quality.


I'm going to go ahead and get the HF set and see how it goes.  If it's no good then $10 is a small price to pay to find out.  I'll post an install thread when I do it.
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chzeckmate
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #7 - 10/14/15 at 00:03:32
 
I thought I'd circle back on this to let you guys know that it was the horn that was bad.  The wiring and switch were fine so I just slapped on one of the old horns I had lying around and it's good enough for the time being.  When I get a little free time I'm going to swap out for a dual air horn setup.  I'll post when I do it.

Thanks @youzguyz...Your input surely saved me some time messing with the multimeter.  Cheers!
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Tocsik
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #8 - 10/14/15 at 11:24:06
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/25/15 at 13:16:14:
... Someone recently did a good looking ,dual horn install. I don't know where the thread is.Sorry..
...


Not sure if that was me but here's the thread with some pics of my FIAMM El Grande horns.  They're 20 bucks on Slamazon if the HF's don't hold up.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1436647368/7#7
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #9 - 10/14/15 at 12:16:09
 



That's the one. But I do believe they're upside down. You're the guinea pig. And the price of being wrong, IF you are, is low.

That didn't work..
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Tocsik
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #10 - 10/14/15 at 12:27:51
 
Yeah, not sure which direction is "correct".  I looked at some pics from other installs online and saw a range of possibilities.
I have mine mounted as they are to drain out any water that may get inside.

czechmate - let us know how the HF horns work out for you.  You going to do an inline fuse and relay?
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chzeckmate
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #11 - 10/14/15 at 12:30:23
 
I saw your thread.  Your setup sounds good and looks nice too.  I've done this before on some of my other bikes, hence the surplus horns lying around.  I'm curious about the relay.  On my previous installs I didn't install the included relay, I only installed an inline fuse on the negative wire and they worked just fine.  Please help me understand why you think the relay is needed.  In other applications I've used relays to act as a switch where I wanted to prevent the main switch from arcing and possibly burning out, but this doesn't seem to be an issue on the horn switch on the Savage (or my other bikes) since the switch only closes the positive connection.  It seemed like having an inline fuse on the negative wire would prevent burning out the main switch.  I could be wrong.  If I am, let me know...This is fascinating stuff.
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #12 - 10/14/15 at 13:23:07
 
I did the relay for exactly the reason you stated and from reading about the horn switch here on the forum.  Didn't want to burn out my horn switch.  The El Grande's actually come with their own relay but I put in a Bosch relay since they are known to be high quality and only cost a few bucks.  The dual horn setup draws more current than stock and the relay prevents that current from going through the switch.  If the Savage switch closes the positive connection, doesn't that mean all of the current is flowing through the switch?  I'm no expert so relied on the advice of the group.
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'08|Raptor|Dyna|Stock jets & no other carb changes @ 5280' alt|'slavy CCT|Kawa front pulley|130/90 rear tire|7" LED headlight|3" straight risers|FIAMM El Grande horns|Mutazu hard bags
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #13 - 10/14/15 at 17:34:35
 
The switch only carries the current to actuate the relay. The small electromagnetic coil. When you push the button, the coil energizes, creating an electromagnet, pulling the heavy contacts together, and They carry the horn current. It's a smaller version of the starter solenoid, same principle.
There's nothing wrong with a work bench mock up. I did one on the Taurus radiator fan I mounted up behind the seat on the backhoe. Let it run fifteen minutes and checked everything to see if anything got hot.
But, in your case, all you need is to identify the actuating connections and the controlled connections. If the relay has four connections, then two of them fire the coil , closing the other two. If six, then hot and ground are controlled. You can wire it however you like. You can ground the horn anywhere and just run the hot wire through the relay. If only a hot wire comes out of the switch and goes to the horn, which grounds to the frame, then, you'll need to create a ground from the frame to go to the control end, so when you push the but on the coil will energize and then when that happens, the heavy contacts close. If you want to just run power through the relay, that's okay. Just tap into a heAvy enough wire to carry the load, run one to the horn, ground horn to frame.
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chzeckmate
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Re: Dead horn
Reply #14 - 10/15/15 at 02:46:59
 
I totally get how relays work.  My thing is, I want to know why I would use one.  I can't see the need for it in this application.  The stock horn switch carries the same current as the relay will carry.  I can see how using the relay might be useful if I were going to use heavier gauge wire for the new the horns or if I were going to use a capacitor, but I don't see any reason to use a heavier gauge or a capacitor.  The horns aren't going to get steady use so no need for heavy gauge and the battery is sufficient to power the horns so no need for a capacitor.  I'm inclined not to use the relay unless there's a good reason to use it, which is really what I'm asking.
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'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
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