Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Clutch issue (Read 281 times)
Boogie_with_Stu
Senior Member
****
Offline

Look Ma, no hands!

Posts: 280
Raleigh, NC
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #15 - 09/20/15 at 20:47:43
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/20/15 at 20:30:11:
They are cheap. Mark stuff before taking things apart.
One end is left hand thread.



ah...thanks for the heads up...that's good to know. And yeah, about $9 aint gonna break the bank.

First thing tomorrow I will give this a good look, checking all of the aspects of the shifter and linkage.
Back to top
 
 

03 Savage, Pearl Novelty Black,Raptor mod, Boulevard seat, Rectifier mod -'07 Honda Nighthawk 250 stock
  IP Logged
Boogie_with_Stu
Senior Member
****
Offline

Look Ma, no hands!

Posts: 280
Raleigh, NC
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #16 - 09/22/15 at 16:50:43
 
So today I jacked up the bike and checked the shift linkage...hoping for an obvious sign to explain my clutch issues. No such luck. The linkage looks brand new. I removed the rod and checked it carefully...it's fine. When I put it all back I did lower the shifter a bit. It was always too high for my tastes. Nothing was loose or worn or bent anywhere.

Can someone tell me, if on this particular beast, you should be able to shift into any of the five gears while the engine is running and the bike is standing still? I seem to remember being able to go at least from N to 1st, to 2nd and into 3rd, then back down again with zero issues when I first got the bike. I could also be confusing the Honda with the Savage (havent rode the Nighthawk in a couple weeks...doing a handlebars/controls/cables change).

Getting a bit frustrated with this thing to be honest. 4000 miles, any bike ought to run like new. I didnt take the clutch side cover off, did nothing but a couple of oil changes and played with the cable (and today adjusted the shifter linkage). I've also developed a rattle in the tank/speedo area...probably due to messing with the tank mounts when I installed the S40 seat (I used the rubber cork seat riser method).

I know the bike is "finicky". I have the idle correct, the right oil in her at the correct fill level, and have adjusted the clutch in every way that the manual calls out. Nada. Still, goes into 1st only if I give the bike a tiny foot-push (or move the clutch lever back and forth about 3/8"sometimes works), and will not go into 2nd from neutral no matter what I do if I'm standing still and idling. Again, once moving she seems to shift clean...both up and down.

I'm at a loss.
Back to top
 
 

03 Savage, Pearl Novelty Black,Raptor mod, Boulevard seat, Rectifier mod -'07 Honda Nighthawk 250 stock
  IP Logged
Kenny G
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com The
Singles Club...LOL

Posts: 1754
Robson Ranch, Denton, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #17 - 09/22/15 at 17:30:59
 
Stu,

The next time you are going to ride your Savage try breaking the clutch plates loose first. Push the bike backwards while pushing down on the gear shift peg until you feel it engage. Then push the bike forward and let the clutch lever in and out while you push the bike down your driveway. When you are sure the clutch plates have separated push the gear shift back into neutral and start the engine. The gear shift lever should go into first gear with just moderate pressure.

Kenny G
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
oldNslow
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2683
Rochester, NY
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #18 - 09/22/15 at 17:48:41
 
Quote:
Again, once moving she seems to shift clean...both up and down.


In that case, you may not actually have anything wrong. It isn't unusual for a motorcycle transmission to be reluctant to shift if the wheels are not moving and the gears aren't turning.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18098
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #19 - 09/22/15 at 18:06:15
 
No....you won't be able to shift into more than just 1st gear with the bike sitting still, and maybe second.  The transmission has teeth what won't line up when the bike is not moving......so if you are having shifting trouble with the bike sitting still - that is normal of any bike.

Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #20 - 09/22/15 at 23:46:18
 
If you just ease the clutch out to the beginning of the friction zone then pull in, and press the shifter which ever way you want.
You can shift with it not running. Rock the bike.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
chzeckmate
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Be the person your
dog thinks you are

Posts: 514
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #21 - 09/23/15 at 02:03:39
 
Stu, What you're describing is pretty typical stuff.  When I first got mine it wanted to go into neutral when shifting up to second a lot.  It took me awhile before I got it sorted out.  This bike requires a lot of muscle memory compared to other bikes I've owned.  I should say that I've never owned a bike that wanted to shift through all the gears while stationary.  A bit of clutch work and rocking it is how I've always done that.

To make shifting into second easier for now, I would recommend slightly reducing rpm just before the upshift.  When I say slightly, I mean very slight.  You'll get to where you do it without thinking about it and it doesn't hinder acceleration at all.  It just becomes a slight (very slight) wrist motion.  I eventually learned that my bike wants to be shifted into second at a very specific rpm range which is very narrow.  I've put 4,000 miles on mine and now I can tell just by feel when I'm there.  You'll get there too, but for now try what I mentioned and see how it goes.

I might also mention that you probably don't need to worry about the noise shifting from neutral to first.  You should be able to tell by feel if there's really a problem.  This setup is really basic.  There's going to be some noise shifting from neutral to first.  That's just the nature of the beast.  Earbuds make the world a better place when riding the LS650.
Back to top
 
 

'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
  IP Logged
Boogie_with_Stu
Senior Member
****
Offline

Look Ma, no hands!

Posts: 280
Raleigh, NC
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #22 - 09/23/15 at 14:05:58
 
Earbuds make the world a better place when riding the LS650.

OMG, what kind of 14th century monster did I buy?  Grin

What Kenny said sounds about right....it feels like the clutch isnt breaking loose. I dont know what I could have done to it to cause it to act that way. It didnt give me this problem before I changed the clutch perch/removed clutch cable, and did the 2 oil changes in quick succession. When I do what Kenny suggested I can shift quite easily into first. The idea that I would have to do that every time I ride is not compatible with my idea of bike ownership.

Possible that the previous owner used a synth oil and the bike is just "getting used to" the Rotella T?
Back to top
 
 

03 Savage, Pearl Novelty Black,Raptor mod, Boulevard seat, Rectifier mod -'07 Honda Nighthawk 250 stock
  IP Logged
Kenny G
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com The
Singles Club...LOL

Posts: 1754
Robson Ranch, Denton, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #23 - 09/23/15 at 17:26:38
 
Stu,

Both of my current rides have wet clutches. If I don't break the clutch loose on either bike before I start the engine I get a lot of grinding noises from the transmission when I attempt to put the bike in gear.

On the Buell I have had riders tell me that all Sportster transmissions grind when they are put in gear. Mine doesn't grind because I break the clutch loose before I ride. I usually break the clutch loose while coasting down the driveway and it doesn't add any time to my getting going in the morning.

Kenny G
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #24 - 09/23/15 at 18:19:03
 
Just sit on it, get it in neutral, move it a coupla inches,,
See how that acts,, if it's not enough, next time, get more involved.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Boogie_with_Stu
Senior Member
****
Offline

Look Ma, no hands!

Posts: 280
Raleigh, NC
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #25 - 09/25/15 at 10:18:21
 
Thanks Kenny...luckilly I have a 130 ft long driveway with a downward slope Grin

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/23/15 at 18:19:03:
Just sit on it, get it in neutral, move it a coupla inches,,
See how that acts,, if it's not enough, next time, get more involved.



Perhaps you'd care to explain the "next time, get more involved" comment?
Back to top
 
 

03 Savage, Pearl Novelty Black,Raptor mod, Boulevard seat, Rectifier mod -'07 Honda Nighthawk 250 stock
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #26 - 09/25/15 at 12:18:19
 
If just moving inches doesn't do it, next time, try more, till you discover the least amount of effort required to accomplish the goal.
That may change as the weather cools. I never had the problem, just fired up in neutral and dropped in first. Yeah, there was a bit of clash, but those gears are plenty tough. All they are fighting is their own momentum and the shear strength of the oil stuck in the clutch.
If it's warmed up and you're sitting in neutral at a light and holding the clutch lever in, the gears can stop and it won't be easy to get in gear if they stop where they clash, just ease out to about where you would feel the clutch start to pull away from a stop, pull back in, drop in gear. I've run a bike through all the gears sitting still, just let out on the lever enough to just touch the beginning of the friction zone.
I stalled in traffic in fifth gear, unfunny , stupid moment, but it can be done and quickly.
The lever adjustment, lowering it, good plan, that should make getting second easier. A slightly bent rod will flex on down shift, a serious bend would lower the toe end of the lever and flex some both ways, but a vigorous shift action should get it in.
I'd go ride it, like I was drag racing. I mean get after it. Run that dude up in first till the rate of acceleration starts to drop off a little, slap the gas off, grab the clutch and shift it like ya mean it. Might not drop the clutch lever and wring the gas full on, if you Didn't get the shift, don't wanna rap it out, but that Should work. Then play with it, learn the minimum effort. I've shifted to second without the clutch, it's too big of an RPM jump for me to master it and make it smooth, but second and up, the bike will shift, quickl, smoothly and without harm, upshifting and downshifting. It's just a matter of timing and technique.
And sometimes, it's just gonna klunk a little dropping into first,
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Boogie_with_Stu
Senior Member
****
Offline

Look Ma, no hands!

Posts: 280
Raleigh, NC
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #27 - 09/25/15 at 19:59:21
 
Roger that Justin...before this 6 day long deluge started yesterday I tried all of your suggestions. The "letting out the clutch lever slightly" or working it back and forth works like a charm. I wasnt expecting to HAVE to do it, but it's nice that it is that easy to correct. Also, pulling in the lever with pressure on the shifter allows me to drop into 1st much easier than if I have the lever pulled all the way in. It was very weird to find that all the way in, the shifter completely refused to drop into first, but letting the lever out a tad...and I mean like 1/2" or less....and it drops in clean. It made me think I had "over adjusted" the clutch and it wasnt in the sweet spot with the adjustment both on the perch and the engine side. I wasted a week trying to tweak a clutch cable that wasnt in need of tweeking ( but I am glad to have moved the shifter head a bit lower...it helps immensely. I wear "soft" boots as opposed to steel toe or even hard leather pull ons).

Once again, thanks all for the help and the inspiration (and for talking to me in ittty bitty tiny words so I could "get it").

The Honda Nighthawk 250 definitely spoiled me rotten. Starts effortlessly, idles perfectly, shifts as clean and easy as any bike I have ever been on, and can be thrown around any turn as easy as a bicycle.
Do I wish the savage was as "friendly" as the Honda? Sure, but they have completely different personalities. If the Honda is a blonde, the Savage is definitely a redhead.
Back to top
 
 

03 Savage, Pearl Novelty Black,Raptor mod, Boulevard seat, Rectifier mod -'07 Honda Nighthawk 250 stock
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #28 - 09/25/15 at 20:17:51
 
In time you'll tame the beast. It'll do what you want, when you want.
It's not broken or bad, you're just not speaking its language yet.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18098
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Clutch issue
Reply #29 - 09/26/15 at 04:24:16
 
Most likely what you are experiencing is a symptom of your change from a 10W-30 or 5W-30 oil t a 15W-40 oil.  The new oil is just a bit thicker when the engine is cold, and the thicker oil in the clutch is just a bit less eager to release the clutch until things are warmed up.


On all "light" bikes that I own......I start the bike up and warm it up for about 15 seconds to a minute while I am sitting on the bike (just depends what it takes for that bike to run smoothly), then I pull in the clutch, put my left foot on the peg....and I push forward with my right foot and get the bike rolling while I click the bike into gear.  It reduces the "shock" or "jump" that occurs when the cold clutch is first called into action.  Once in gear I let out the clutch and start my ride.

On my trials bike the clutch was very grabby when first started....and sometimes it wouldn't let go for half a minute.  I would start the bike, pull in the clutch and push off with my foot while I shifted into first gear.......and then ride around with the clutch pulled in and applying the rear brake on and off....and in about 20 seconds the clutch would release and it would be fine the rest of the day.  Trials motorcycles require a lot of clutch slipping to control traction in wet/muddy conditions, and as a result the plates become very polished.....and the oil surface tension just doesn't want to allow the clutch to release.  You can correct this problem by taking the clutch apart and lightly sanding the metal and fiber plates to remove the polished surface and provide a way for air to get between the plates and release the "stiction".
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
09/25/24 at 09:28:31



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Clutch issue


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.