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Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga) (Read 3548 times)
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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #195 - 11/18/15 at 03:23:49
 

Ain't it magical?   I makes me a prediction, and it comes to pass .....

Harsh facts coming out of ARM land is that only Samsung had made a first 14nm core that didn't do the thermal slow down thing so badly that performance was degraded.

Part of it was Samsung's intelligent spec'ing of the output,  actually do X+ but only claim X such that when it gets warm in your product it does not drop below X.   Samsung did that this past year with their first 14nm chipset since their drop down X was still faster than anybody else's chipset's bogus X+ claims.

Intel isn't smart enough to do that -- they always claim the moon and then fall way way short.   Then, when they get caught falling short they "make a new version" with a high "turbo" setting just to move all the failed silicone.   Qualcomm has started doing this too, with their 810/808 chipsets.

Many times the very quick "new Intel part number" changes you see are somewhat bogus, just a respec'ing of wiped clean and part number reprinted chipsets.   Or, if sorting for Apple had taken place, the selling off of the sort failures as another part number.  

For example, Qualcomm admits that the 808 chipsets are 810's that failed testing and are being sold as lesser products.


========================================


So, everybody has the 14nm and lower thermal issues now, but ARM has decided to combat this widespread issue with MORE CORES and very quick core switching built into the Android scheduling software.   Lots of ramped sets of cores and good switching software also allows for better energy management and it keeps throughput higher than a full thermal dump on just 4 cores will allow.

All of Intel's cores are MUCH BIGGER and less energy efficient than the current ARM cores.   They make more heat per milliamp of processor power and 14nm Intel currently gets thermal degradation  twice as badly as ARM does, to the order of half speed to 1/3 speed after warm up when run in a product that does not allow for a fan and a humongous heat sink.
 
A phone for example .....  phones can have heat spreaders, but it increases the weight of the phone rapidly.   And BTW Intel, using your battery as a heat spreader isn't the smartest move either.

Intel now specs BIG heat sinks and fans for all their 14nm products.    And nobody is using Intel phone chips any more.

More and smaller (less heat sensitive) cores is the only path Intel has to follow right now.  Being Intel, they will go with multiples of whatever core count they actually plan to use and they will spread the cores out such that the built-in heat spreader can take heat from the active set easily and move it out to the heat sink and fan.    Then the active set of cores will be switched to march around the population of many cores according to some scheduling algorithm or else each core will get used sporadically and then let sit idle for a few cycles to cool down.  Either way works to the same end, spread out the heating effects by lowering the % utilization time per core.

Intel will not go to 10nm as they already know it won't work for them.   You can bet they are frantically working on a non-silicon 7nm process that does not violate the IBM patents though.


========================================


Here is my woopie thought for this week.    Those working with the new non-silicon stuff say it is a lot faster and it uses less power.

What if the non-silicon stuff is faster and better,  enough faster and better such that a larger, existing lithography node could offer large performance increases compared to the existing best of the best using silicon based 14nm ???

Wow, you could be back in business kicking out improved products ASAP that way.



Now do you understand why Google is hiring a very few of the very best processor designers away from Qualcomm and Samsung?   Google needs to understand the new non-silicon chipsets ahead of time, up to two years before they are released, so the OS can be ready for them.

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« Last Edit: 11/18/15 at 09:13:25 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #196 - 11/18/15 at 19:56:57
 

http://liliputing.com/2015/11/reports-windows-falling-fast.html

Windows phone has just about dumped half its existing market share in the last year
(most of it in the last 6 mos)

Windows Phone, who had a 3% market share just got dumped down by its user base, dumped down to a 1.7% market share that is still dropping.  

Why?

"According to a recent report from Ericsson, part of the problem is that Windows phone users aren’t as loyal to their platform as Android and iOS users.

This year about 82 percent of Android users who bought a new phone bought one running Android, while 73 percent of iPhone users who switched phones bought a new iPhone. But Ericsson says only about 20 percent of Windows phone users who bought a new phone purchased a model running Windows software. About 60 percent of users switched to Android phones, while about 15 percent switch to iOS."




Undecided

and if that isn't bad enough, there is even a flow chart showing EXACTLY how Windows is losing their place in mobile as users leave the Windows phone experience behind them.



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« Last Edit: 11/22/15 at 17:37:11 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #197 - 11/18/15 at 20:10:50
 

Now let's say the dirty word --- COST.

A Windows phone is VERY expensive to buy, and you really are going to wind up buying it from Microsoft since nobody else is building them for much any more.

Next, you got no apps.   And if you want one that does exist, it COSTS you plenty.   And if MS happens to roll Windows Phone out from underneath it, well, tough turkey.    Go buy you a new phone.

Next, your MS Phone has a KNOWN track record as a pain in the butt to live with as far as how well the software runs over time (lots of buggy updates) ---- and MS has just shown a recent willingness to discontinue supporting your 1-2 year old phone COMPLETELY --  just plain stone cold dead.

I think the people MS screwed over so far mostly went to Android, the abandonment numbers line up pretty good with the non-support for Win 10 on the existing Windows Phone populations.

And now you know why MS has dropped development support on the Windows 10 Mobile line on quite a few of its model numbers, functions and support items.

Mutual abandonment -- a customer/supplier suicide pact


=========================================


http://liliputing.com/2015/11/reports-windows-falling-fast.html

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3169417

http://www.ericsson.com/res/docs/2015/mobility-report/ericsson-mobility-repor...

Reports: Windows Phone market share is falling fast

"Android is the world’s most popular smartphone operating system, followed by iOS. Windows comes in a distant third, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change anytime soon… unless Windows movies further down the ladder."

Well, Win Phone is moving alright, skipping a couple of rungs at a time now as it drops down towards Blackberry status.
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« Last Edit: 11/19/15 at 09:29:32 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #198 - 11/19/15 at 03:19:58
 

What will $100 buy you in an Android phone?  


Answer, the general unlocked standards that were brand new at the start of 2015

http://www.amazon.com/BLU-ENERGY-Smartphone-Battery-Unlocked/dp/B015XIHS62/re...




Unlocked Dual Sim Smartphone, with Android 5.1 Lollipop

4,000 mAh Super Battery that lasts approximately 3 days with standard usage and over 30 days on standby with just one charge

5.0" HD display, 8MP Main Camera with LED Flash + 2MP Front Camera
MediaTek Quad Core 1.3 GHz processor with ARM Mali-400 GPU, 8GB Internal Memory

1GB RAM Micro SD up to 64GB

GSM Quad Band 4G HSPA+ (850/1700/1900/2100): US Compatibility Nationwide on all GSM Networks including AT&T, T-Mobile, Cricket, MetroPCS, Straight Talk and others.



Wink


Lots of people are dropping their expensive data plans with the built in $600 replacement phone's worth of monthly charges.   They are moving to "U-buy it" phones like this, taking it from carrier to carrier according to who has the best non-contract deal at the moment.    They shop for service in other words, with a generic unlocked phone that can move with a sim card change up.

PS, look at the specs -- 3 day battery life, good graphics, quad core chipset with performance similar to the low end Qualcomm phones.

Downsides -- it is a throw away phone if anything goes wrong with it.  Cost you more to ship it in for service than it is worth used.
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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #199 - 11/19/15 at 09:24:55
 

http://liliputing.com/2015/11/microsofts-con08-or-810-chip.html

Microsoft’s Continuum for phone requires a Snapdragon 808 or 810 chip

Microsoft has rolled their dice and made their play -- if you want full Windows 10 support on a MS Windows phone for real, you MUST use a Qualcomm 808 or 810 (same chipset, actually).   Intel chipsets need not apply.  Furthermore, only top end Lumina phones and the Acer Jade Primo are fully supported right now.





"To repeat, your old Windows phone is NOT supported for Continuum unless you chose rightly, and recently  --  i.e. if you bought one of the first three phones that we know of that will support Continuum software: the Lumia 950, Lumia 950 XL, and Acer Jade Primo that is."

The rest of you Windows phone people (yeah, all the Intel chipped guys) well, you are out in the cold going forward.

Sorry.
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« Last Edit: 11/19/15 at 21:21:38 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #200 - 11/20/15 at 11:52:45
 

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/lumia-950-review-windows-phone-finally...

Lumia 950 review: Windows Phone finally has a new flagship—will anyone care?
Camera is great and Continuum is cool, but Windows Phone likely blew its last big chance.


(Some) benchmarks, showing that Microsoft (using the same Qualcomm hardware) under-performs strongly to all of its competition while charging just as much money as much as a flagship Apple phone costs.



"That new Windows Phone flagships are so overdue has been nothing but bad news for the platform. Even people who otherwise like the platform, develop for the platform, evangelize for the platform have jumped ship for lack of hardware. And for those that stayed, the delay has also placed tremendous weight of expectation on the new flagships.

Unfortunately, the Lumia 950 does not really live up to those expectations."


You have to read it all to get all the particulars, but it really boils down to if this phone had come out early last year it could have been a flagship phone.   But now, a full year late, it is just barely only a "me too" at best.    

And the performance that Win 10 Mobile can get out of mostly good hardware is pretty durned abysmal since a non-top-end Nexus 5 can beat its performance.    And a similarly priced Apple phone can QUADRUPLE its actual performance.

And since some of the groundbreaking key features like iris recognition are totally non-functional for people wearing glasses and the Continuum docking doesn't work with real PC softwares this new "flagship" comes across as a year late very expensive total boondoggle that just got pushed out because MS felt just had to.

Lumia 950 review: Windows Phone finally has a new flagship—will anyone care?
Camera is great and Continuum is cool, but Windows Phone likely blew its last big chance.
   

Ars technica's wording, not mine.


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« Last Edit: 11/20/15 at 21:51:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #201 - 11/20/15 at 20:50:50
 

http://www.itworld.com/article/2968437/windows/good-bye-chromebooks-acers-new...

Every once and a while it is good to go out to light house point and get in a boat and ride out in the deep open ocean currents to see which way the current is going out where it really counts.

In this case, we ride out to the IT World lighthouse point and we put in our boat in the water and we ride out for an hour and a half.  Then we park our boat way out there by the Preston Gralla sona-buoy way out there in the deep deep Microsoft IT main ocean current and we lower our instrument package into the main current itself.  

This is so far out in the MS Gulf Stream that no-one could mistake which way the currents should run, right?   I mean really, we are doing our sampling right next to the official sona-buoy for chriminny sakes .....

To perform this experiment, you need to read the article and then read the comments below the article.

This is a whole dolphin school of IT professionals responding to a respected MS preacher who had just delivered what was last year's standard pulpit sermon -- and they wholesale threw it back in his face like he was getting slapped by a wet fish for being stupid.


If you didn't think things were changing for much, please reconsider that mindset after taking your little boat trip.    Even IT professionals know very well what Chromebooks are good for and why that is the way it is.

Undecided

http://www.itworld.com/article/2968437/windows/good-bye-chromebooks-acers-new...
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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #202 - 11/20/15 at 21:26:32
 

OK, that was deep deep current IT professionals, now how about the normal mainstream user community?

http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-a-windows-10-cloudbook-isnt-a-chromebook-killer/

"I think the idea of getting rid of Windows can be a key part of it (which is the case for me personally and for a lot of other folks I talk to) -- having a simple experience that "just works" and doesn't involve all the old-school computing hassles like drivers, compatibility errors, virus worries and the need to buy and run anti-virus software, systems slowing down over time, annoying manual OS and app updates, etc etc.

Chromebooks may seem to be about inexpensive machines, but I've found that they are much more transparent machines, by which I mean that I don't have to think about the machine to get my work done. To borrow a phrase, it just works.

I use my Chromebook more than my Windows PC and it's safe to say that while price is a factor with Chromebooks, it's Chrome OS that keeps me on board. The fast boot times, seamless updates and the plain simplicity of Chrome OS is just great.

I migrated my father 2 years ago from Windows to a Chromebook and it was the best decision ever. Just search for "my father goes Chrome". The decision was based mainly on simplicity rather than price. It just works!

I was sick of windows. The constant updates, the long boot times, the unnecessary complexity of everything. I do everything in the cloud, both personally and at work so have moved completely away from windows, been only using chromebooks for the last year.

It is absolutely about simplicity and 'appliance computing'. The simple fact is this - if ChromeOS does what you need than it is absolutely a better operating system than Windows. It's not even close.

I have a good chunk of several days setting up a new Win10 box for multiple members of a family - most of them older and not especially tech literate or savvy. Meanwhile I've spent about 10 minutes total setting up or maintaining both my own Chromebook over the last 18 months, and also another Chromebook for my sister - who again is not very tech literate/savvy."


Sometimes it's not what you get with a product, but what you don't get, that's the compelling factor.

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #203 - 11/21/15 at 19:42:20
 

http://semiaccurate.com/2015/05/04/microsoft-just-palmed-mobile-market/

This is deep and chewy stuff -- very sales and marketing detailed and it is completely based on 20 years of watching computing grow and develop.

It isn't an easy read, but the man makes his salient points in the first sentence of each paragraph and then spends the rest of the paragraph proving the salient point.   It makes it easy to scan the article and you only need to deep read the bits that catch your attention.

If you want to know why MS suddenly can't do anything right, this man has an explanation.  It isn't a very nice explanation, but he's got one.

Realize he wrote this back in April of this year, and it looks like his predictions all came true in the time line he estimated.    Microsoft did indeed lose mobile market share hand over fist since this article first hit print.   They have literally lost half of what they had and are still dropping like a rock in deep water.   MS literally can't do anything right any more.

So, you can perhaps say his theories have worked out in real life and can now possibly be considered "explanations".    Just not very nice ones ......

http://semiaccurate.com/2015/05/04/microsoft-just-palmed-mobile-market/

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #204 - 11/22/15 at 07:40:22
 

Remember Microsoft saying you could install Win 10 off a ISO downloaded DVD and use your old key to intialize it?   Sounded good, didn't it?  

Actually a user friendly sort of thing.  Mebbe MS was finally getting it .....

Today, four hours ago, Microsoft yanked the ISO image and has stopped the old key initialization process as of today, Sunday, 11/22/2015.    

No explanation was given.

Shite like this is why users get ill with Microsoft.

Some pundits are now wondering if MS is going into total self-defense mode, planning on keeping anything they have that is of any real value at this point in time with intentions of plunging into the monitization process post haste in order to have an income flow next year.  

They may have to go ahead with monitization NOW, since they are losing market share in the places they need to be growing and Win 10 is actually becoming somewhat slightly un-loved by the un-converted general populace.

Evidence of this trend swing could come from strong Chromebook sales over Christmas and weak Win 10 notebook sales.   Or vice versa, should Win 10 be considered desirable to the masses in its present condition.

Since MS is forcing its suppliers into keeping mum on all notebook sales figures, only your hairdresser will know for sure.    Statements issued by MS of late about notebook sales have been misleading, to say the least.

Wink
     
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« Last Edit: 11/22/15 at 11:30:55 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #205 - 11/22/15 at 11:27:32
 
I read about this pulled update yesterday. Did the update break something or have they changed their mind? This is my biggest issue with MS these days. They seem to change direction every couple of weeks. I would certainly hate to be a corporate customer these days. How do you plan for the future when the target keeps moving?

Not to just pick on MS about screwing up updates. Apple has been having the same problems with IOS. Releases 8 and 9 come out and stuff breaks. The whole operating system business has become too complicated. Chrome intrigues me, but I have not tried it yet. I have no desire to dive into Internet access required cloud computing. Not that I don't trust the vendors, but I just don't trust the vendors.
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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #206 - 11/22/15 at 14:18:50
 

Bobert,

It is even stranger yet -- the big November update is being rolled back by successive nightly updates now.

It is as if the increase in functionality was too much to be given away for free, and it is now being reclaimed for a future pay me re-release as part of an even larger pay me upgrade next year.

MS isn't doing well financially on several fronts and you are perhaps seeing the sudden retrenching of their battle lines as they prepare for monitization earlier than they had expected.

To be locked into Windows 10 at this stage is unfortunate, since you get to go on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride now whether you want to or not.

"Trust us."      Tongue

MS giveth and MS taketh away ..... get used to it.
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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #207 - 11/22/15 at 14:37:43
 

Ed Bott speaks ......  Microsoft's pocket boy is completely bumbfuzzled by MS's actions.    Somewhat angry, too.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/ed-botts-weekly-wrap-update-disappears-amazon-ad...

"Microsoft's latest communication snafu dominated the news last week.

WINDOWS 10 NOVEMBER UPDATE (VERSION 1511) GOES MISSING

What happened to the big Windows 10 Microsoft released on November 12? It's supposed to be the first in a continuous series of new feature releases. But if you tried to update over the weekend, you were out of luck. The Windows Update servers appear to have stopped delivering the update package, and the manual tool has also been downgraded to the original release.

Microsoft yanks latest Windows 10 release from its download server

Another by-product is that anyone upgrading from Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 today has no choice but to accept a 3 GB upgrade to build 10240, followed a month later by an equally large second upgrade to version 1511.

And to add insult to those injuries, the sudden removal of the build 10586 ISO files means that the newly added capability to do a clean install using a Windows 7 or Windows 8.x product key is now unavailable to the general public unless they were fast enough to download and save an ISO file before the change.

Microsoft's official statements on the matter are almost incoherent, and I'm told that the real reason is "complicated." Maybe we'll get some real answers next week.

============================

LUKEWARM LUMIA 950 REVIEWS

Microsoft released its Lumia 950 smartphone this week, the first of two flagship phones that will show off the Windows 10 Mobile operating system.

The reviews were not kind, in general

Peter Bright, Ars Technica: "Camera is great and Continuum is cool, but Windows Phone likely blew its last big chance"

Joanna Stern, WSJ: "Can a Smartphone Be Your PC?" (Spoiler: Probably not.)

Mary Jo Foley, ZDNet has a less-than-enthusiastic first look, with a more detailed report coming later.

One common impression: The first-of-its-kind Windows Hello feature, based on iris-scanning technology, is flawed, especially for anyone who wears glasses."


Ed Bott and Mary Jo Foley have reverted to being reporters now, rather than being an insider/booster.   They have both been cut off from the insider knowledge that they was once given, and both are honestly shocked at what is going on right now.

Chalk up another two members of the media who are not really happy with Microsoft at the moment.
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« Last Edit: 11/22/15 at 17:11:42 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #208 - 11/22/15 at 14:53:40
 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-lumia-950-review-can-a-smartphone-be-yo...

Joanna Stern at the Wall Street Journal rips MS a new one over Continuum NOT WORKING VERY WELL.  

Dear MS, butt burning articles like this in the Wall Street Journal can affect your stock price, you know.



"The problem is, despite the hexa-core processor and 3GB of RAM, the system feels out of power. Having just five or six open tabs reminded me of the dial-up modem days.

Not only were sites slow to load over Wi-Fi, but the entire system and browser got bogged down. Besides, Google’s Chrome is just a far better desktop browser, feature-wise.

But that’s not the worst of it. Remember those app problems? Because this is Windows 10 Mobile and there is no Intel chip inside, Windows desktop apps don’t work. That means no downloading the desktop version of Spotify or Slack or iTunes. You can’t run mobile apps on the big screen, either. For example, I couldn’t open the Windows Phone Spotify app in the desktop PC mode, but I could run it on the phone while I did work on the computer monitor.

Microsoft’s own apps—Outlook, Office, Maps, Weather—are what the company calls “Universal Apps.” They’ve been written to work on Windows 10 phones, tablets, laptops and desktops and everything in between. Microsoft is betting that app makers will begin to release their own Universal Apps, especially now that there are more than 110 million devices running Windows 10. But since those Windows 10 PCs can run standard desktop versions of popular software, the developer incentive to go universal is a little shaky.

If phones will one day replace our computers, we’re going to choose the phones with the apps and services we already love. Unfortunately for Microsoft, right now those are iPhones and Android phones, which already work great with Microsoft’s own apps and services.

It feels like the Lumia 950 is a proof of concept that might help Microsoft get momentum for its new strategy. But I can’t recommend buying a $600 proof of concept. For now, your phone stays ... a phone."


And it was news that the little Continuum connection box costs extra,  $100 extra,  too.
That's $700 for stuff that simply doesn't work right ....   MS deserves to lose market share with $700 stuff like that.

Others have written the pan reviews on the Lumina-as-a-phone already, and it sucks rocks for performance as a phone compared to current Apple and Android premium phones and it simply doesn't work on any of the "exclusive new MS Iris phone features" worth doodley.  

And now the Continuum stuff sucks rocks too.

MS totally fails    .... again ....    and the Wall Street Journal is the one calling them out on it.


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« Last Edit: 11/22/15 at 17:22:18 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Microsoft Windows 10 (the ongoing saga)
Reply #209 - 11/22/15 at 20:36:55
 
OF, if 110 million computers have now gone to Win 10, do you have any idea of what percentage of the worlds computers 110 million is?
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