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'Owning', Slaves. (Read 444 times)
MnSpring
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'Owning', Slaves.
06/24/15 at 09:12:15
 
“Lake Calhoun” in Mpls MN, was named, “Lake Calhoun” in about 1817
Before that, it had Indian names.
It was named after, The United States Secretary of War, John C. Calhoun.
J.C. Calhoun, was from South Carolina.
He was a great proponent of:
states rights, limited government, and free trade.
He was a Vice President. He died before the Civil War.

But now, some people, want to RE-NAME that lake.
And they have all the local, TV, Media, on their side.

Cheese and Rice! Before Charleston, if you asked 1,000 people,
who lived around the largest lake in Minneapolis, (Calhoun).
Probably 1 or 2, would know it’s history.
(And before someone, says:
"Calhoun", is not the largest lake in the Twin City Metro area,
the, largest lake, is NOT in Mpls)

Yet. NOW, they want to change it’s name?
Because some, ‘wanna-be’, King, said a certain Flag is bad.

Guess, next is, chiseling, the faces of:
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Abraham Lincoln,
OFF, Mt. Rushmore, because they also, had black skinned Slaves.



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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #1 - 06/24/15 at 17:48:52
 
Now,don't get wound up too tight over this.
FWIW,  slavery wasn't limited to the South. Laws required slaves be returned if they did manage to escape to a place where slavery was illegal.
The War was NOT about slavery. Make note of the date of the war, April 12, 1861, and the
Emancipation proclamation,  January  1, 1863

Now, in the letter to Horace Greeley, read what he said.

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

If I was gonna whip your butt for talking about my sister, you'd know that before I threw the first punch.

READ, and stop believing what you were taught.
As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.


If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it,
If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it,



Somewhat contradictory to the history teachers..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Serowbot
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #2 - 06/24/15 at 18:24:47
 
The letter explains that Lincoln's priority is saving the Union... and not the freeing of the slaves...
... but,... that was Lincoln's priority... not the priority of the southern slave states that were trying to secede...
Their priority was to keep slavery...That was the reason for secession...

So,.. the war was about slavery...
They also say it was about "State's rights", but that was in reference to slave owners keeping possession of their slaves when they took them into non-slave states......
It was all about slavery...

If that weren't so,... why couldn't Lincoln have just said,..."Well, keep yer' dern slaves"... and prevented the war entirely?...
 Grin...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #3 - 06/24/15 at 18:53:36
 
And, slavery wasn't in the north...

The reasons for the war are a long conversation. The northern industrialists were playing games with legislation and screwing the South, and im sure that since you saw WHEN the declaration was made versus the start of the war and Lincoln's statement that If he could preserve the union and NOT end slavery, Then to say it was just about slavery would be kind of a stretch. I know, it's what we were taught. That letter wasn't part of any history class I was in. Like most things, there is more to the story.

And, SINCE Lincoln's desire was to save the union and SINCE he said he would save the Union if it meant slavery continues then Why DIDN'T he juwsay Fine, keep your slaves?

Maybe there was more to it...
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #4 - 06/24/15 at 19:10:38
 
I think denying it was about slavery is the current south's attempt to do a PC whitewash of history...
...and southerner's are so anti PC... (at least they hate when Lib's do it)...

Dump the flag,.. at worst it represents slavery,.. at best, it represents treason.  
...and, that side lost anyway...
They had the American flag,.. switched to that one for couple of years, got their arse kicked, and switched back...
If it was me,... I'd be hiding it where nobody would ever find it... Grin...


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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #5 - 06/24/15 at 19:24:29
 
Well, that certainly explains Lincoln saying he would be okay with slavery continuing as long as the Union,,,      
Really, making flag jokes?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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MnSpring
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #6 - 06/24/15 at 19:57:08
 
Serowbot wrote on 06/24/15 at 18:24:47:
... Their priority was to keep slavery...That was the reason for secession...  So,.. the war was about slavery...     Grin...


Nope, read history. real history, not a, 'today's re-written version of history'.

The C.W. Started, BECAUSE, a, 'Government',
was demanding, undue, Taxes, upon certain States,
And LESS Representation. (States Rights),
and was Demanding, (Because the, 'South),
 could PAY, but not receive.

Kinna like a, 'King" said not 100 years before.

The C.W., Became, about, 'Black Skinned People, slavery",
Simply because,  it was, the P.C. (of the day), Thing to say!.
IT did NOT, Start That Way !

If it was about, 'SLAVERY", tell me WHY,
Nothing was said about, the several thousands of OTHER
SLAVES, who skin color was NOT black ?????

It was ALL About, the Federal Government, wanting MORE MONEY !

Now, Black Skin Slavery was on the way out anyway.
And the, Black Skin Slaves, on the Very Very Very, most part,
were treated kindly.

Of course their were the POS, 'owners', who treated them badly.
(Just like today)

But for the most part, they had a good life.

UNLIKE, the ones that went to Salt Lake City,
when, 'someone', said:
" Come Here, We Will PAY YOU".
Then proceeded to, Charge them for the land, the houses, the food.

Golly Gee, NOW, they are hugely in DEBT,
But, BUT,  they get, 'Paid".


Read History,   REAL, History,
Not fabricated, re-written, to serve some other purpose.

Same thing is happening now.
We have a, 'wanna-be King"

Who says:
ALL, States,  Give up your Guns.
ALL, States, Give up your freedom to choose Heath Care.
ALL States, You Can NOT say certain things.
ALL States, You can NOT fly a certain Flag.
ALL States, You must Not, 'offend', a person, wanting to apply the 'law' from where they came.
ALL States:  GIVE ME MONEY !@

And on and on and on !

So like Many things,
'States Rights', don't mean, Sh&*

Well, their are a great number of people,
who think different !

Well unless, you live in a, 'inner city area',
and are willing to work 12 hours a day,
for 25.00 a hour, when a loaf of bred cost 15.00,
and get, 'subsidies', from the, 'government'.















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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #7 - 06/24/15 at 20:44:12
 
Now,don't get wound up too tight over this.


Aaaand, well, im on your side, but, dude, kinda went off the tracks a bit.
I couldn't quite follow the whole thought process.

I've been all over the net for the last coupla hours. I earlier stated that, well, go look.....
And, IF you have any intellectual honesty and curiosity, look for stuff that contradicts what we were taught.
Why?
Have we ever been lied to?
History classes TAUGHT that we were attacked in Nam.
Nobody ever hid fifty midgets behind an elephant.
But the war was just because of slavery.
And I've read some very compelling things,, and I have Observed Reality that has given me reason to question nearly everything.
Nearly all my life I answered the question

Slavery.

Now, I see  there was a lot more to it.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #8 - 06/25/15 at 08:31:11
 
The idea of dumping the Confederate flag is just typical of today's politically correct nonsense. Walmart and a few other pussified retailers have removed anything with the Confederate flag on it. However, they'll sell Cuban flags,   Palestinian flags,  Iranian flags, those stupid Che tshirts with no objection. $hit, i gurantee you could find a store who wont sell a conferdeate flag, but theyll sell an ISIS flag if they could make a buck....

This is a typical example of the lefts infringement on free speech.  it's always liberals who take away real freedoms.
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #9 - 06/25/15 at 09:48:46
 
Here's a pretty balanced view on the causes of the Civil War... by Gordon Leidner...
(It is short and worth reading.)
http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/causes.htm

Gordon has been a lifelong student of the Civil War and the American Revolution. His accomplishments include:
   Member of the Board of Directors for the Abraham Lincoln Institute
   Author of 4 books on Abraham Lincoln, including the popular Abraham Lincoln: Quotes, Quips, and Speeches
   Author of a new biography of Abraham Lincoln entitled Lincoln's Gift: How Humor Shaped Lincoln's Life and Legacy
   Author of several academic articles on Lincoln’s role as a Transformational Leader
   Author of many published articles on the Civil War
   Guest Lecturer at The Smithsonian Institution and Johns Hopkins University
   Guest Commentator on various radio programs
   Former president of the Lincoln Group of the District of Columbia
   


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WebsterMark
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #10 - 06/25/15 at 10:12:52
 
I think you can look at the border states during the Civil War to determine if slavery was the primary reason behind the war. slavery was not as common in the border states as in the states of the Confederacy. doesn't that give some indication that slavery was in fact the primary reason for the war? If all the southern states emancipated their slaves in 1860 for example, would there still have been a war between the north and the south over the other issues?  that's a key question. I think the answer is no there would not have been a war.  which again tells me slavery was the primary reason for the Civil War.

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #11 - 06/25/15 at 10:38:48
 
And I have found statements that were supported by historical fact, manipulations, tariffs and unfair behavior economically beating the
Undeveloped South down and saying that there would have been war, slavery or not. That it's still debated this long after, Lincoln's own statements, that slavery could continue if that's what it took to save the Union.
That's him saying,
Keep your slaves, dont secede,can't we all just get along?
The question is, what drove states to feel the need to secede?
Was it because the Northern Industrialists had united and boycotted against the slave owners? Keep in mind that slaves existed in the North , but I would expect that the degree of it was very different.
I've found plenty to read. And I have years of experience watching the people who don't want you to know how things work slap a handy veil over things. It's reasonable, its compassionate, but is it really the whole story?
Spend time looking for information that would challenge the teachers.
Look at legislation,
Pretty easy to stir people up against others who are engaged in behavior
you can demonize. Yet, the Union army wasn't, for the most part, concerned about slavery.
Excerpt from your article

It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery.

The reason s for secession are the key.
I'm not saying that I know all the reasons, I'm just saying that, once again,te official answer .just doesn't cut it.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #12 - 06/25/15 at 11:56:02
 
the questin is what drove the states to feel the need to secede?

I don't think that's really the question. I think everyone knows what drove the states to secede. It was a combination of being forced to give up slavery and the fact that the north was clearly bullying the self. we don't have the same atmosphere today. That's no doubt due to Senators being elected now and evolving into national figures as opposed to appointed by the governor's and being more beholden to the states.

my point is simple, assume the south did not have slavery or that the north did have slavery in equal measure to the south. now assume every other condition was identical as it was back then with the exception of slavery. Do you really think there would have been secession followed by 4 years of bloody and destructive Civil War? I just can't see that. I just don't think people were going to die for that. Especially people in the north.
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #13 - 06/25/15 at 13:11:08
 
Doesn't it seem odd that the soldiers weren't for or against slavery and Lincoln's own statements that if saving the Union meant slavery continues that he would accept that?
I've read what you think, Web, but what have you gone hunting to read that contradicts that?

I've been trying to get you guys to actually use search terms that would lead to information about legislation/ policies, things that would tend to create friction,, things that would explain why men would go off to war.
Row even POSTED that most of the soldiers hadn't joined to keep or eliminate slavery, so what were the early problems? Try reading this. I've learned quite a bit since this started.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=20107


Look up some of the stuff mentioned.
The people who were getting rich off of slavery , the beneficiaries of the tariff s, probably werent as much against slavery as they were upset that the states they were getting rick off of were about to declare themselves a separate country and start writing their own laws and working out trade agreements from the streng position of
Source of supplies/raw materials
That the industrialists
Needed...  
How nice of a cover is that? Omission of important information,insulating legislative misbehavior, governmental bullying, blame it ALL on slavery....
Yep, I've learned a lot in the last two days...
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: 'Owning', Slaves.
Reply #14 - 06/25/15 at 13:18:59
 
A part of the real tragedy of The War Between the States was that if it could have been avoided for another 20 years, slavery would have likely died out anyhow.
As agriculture began to be mechanized in the period right after 1865, and particularly with Whitney's invention of the cotton gin, slaves would have just become too expensive and bothersome to keep.
Slave owners always had to fear revolt, and more than one Southern family was killed by their own slaves.
Then keeping a couple of dozen female slaves picking cotton seeds out of the cotton balls when that could be done by the cotton gin in a few minutes made no economic sense.  Unfortunately, the timing was off by about 20 years.
And I use the term War Between the States because to a historian, a civil war is a war between two or more factions all vying to control a country.  Not was not the case in TWBTS - the South had no desire to control the entire country - they simply wanted to secede and be done with it.
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Jerry Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio
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