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Guess what!!! (Read 273 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Guess what!!!
11/30/14 at 22:43:46
 
I simply no longer CARE... Ive been listening to Bible teaching, solid, day in, day out,, I am simply no longer interested in politics.. Its gonna be what its gonna BE and MY job is to pray,, and thats what IM doin.. Im getting better in every way, I use faith words and keep right faith ideas and I am happier than when I was studying negativity..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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mpescatori
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #1 - 12/01/14 at 01:40:43
 
Uh oh... who's gonna tell him NOW that Adam&Eve and all that were actually the work of highly creative lil' Martians ?  Roll Eyes



http://www.amazon.com/forever-change-ideas-about-Bible-ebook/dp/B00GX5OHYQ/re...

Actually, the guy is anything but the moron next door.

He was the official Vatican translator for the Bible into Italian from the original ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek.

He claims many events which are protrayed as  "miraculous and unexplainable" are actually crystal clear if you look at them with the modern eyes of contemporary technology.

He explains there is no reason why the "Elohim" which are described as "many" in Genesis, should be translated as "the One" into modern languages.

He explains many facts have been twisted beyond recognition from Hebrew into Greek, Latin and English, to the point there is little in common between the original facts described and what we are made to read these days.

He explains the "Blessing" given to a son from his father on his deathbed was not the current meaning of "blessing" but a statement to install unto his one son his feudal authority over territory, livestock, wives and children, and military authority as well: see Jacob who steals Isaac's blessing from his brother Esau, Esau goes to his father Isaac and begs "is there no blessing left for me, too?"
As if a father could only bless one son ,and all the others go away ?  Roll Eyes (*) [See footnote]

There are many times when it is clear that... the Malakim (=Angels) are not little heavenly creatures with dove-like wings, but armed guards, soldiers, escort officers or servant-at-arms to one or more Elohim: they walk across the desert, they are tired, dusty, hungry and thirsty, stop to rest, pitch camp, cook meals and eat among themselves.

More than once YHWH instructs Abraham, then Moses, exactly how to prepare "the offering", and it reads more like a recipe for cooking than a host for sacrifice.

As Gyrobob used to insist (re: "Wheatbelly", remember?) I suggest "read the book", it makes an extremely interesting read, to say the least.

FOOTNOTES:

1. From the Book of Genesis, Chapter 27:

22 So Jacob moved close to his father Isaac. Isaac felt him and said, "The voice is Jacob's voice but the hands are the hands of Esau." 23 He didn't recognize him because his hands were hairy, like his brother Esau's. 24 he pressed him, "You're sure? You are my son Esau?" "Yes. I am." 25 Isaac said, "Bring the food so I can eat of my son's game and give you my personal blessing." Jacob brought it to him and he ate. He also brought him wine and he drank. 26 Then Isaac said, "Come close, son, and kiss me." 27 He came close and kissed him and Isaac smelled the smell of his clothes. Finally, he blessed him, Ahhh. The smell of my son is like the smell of the open country blessed by God. 28 May God give you of Heaven's dew and Earth's bounty of grain and wine. 29 May peoples serve you and nations honor you. You will master your brothers, and your mother's sons will honor you. Those who curse you will be cursed, those who bless you will be blessed. 30 And then right after Isaac had blessed Jacob and Jacob had left, Esau showed up from the hunt. 31 He also had prepared a hearty meal. He came to his father and said, "Let my father get up and eat of his son's game, that he may give me his personal blessing." 32 His father Isaac said, "And who are you?" "I am your son, your firstborn, Esau." 33 Isaac started to tremble, shaking violently. He said, "Then who hunted game and brought it to me? I finished the meal just now, before you walked in. And I blessed him - he's blessed for good!" 34 Esau, hearing his father's words, sobbed violently and most bitterly, and cried to his father, "My father! Can't you also bless me?" 35 "Your brother," he said, "came here falsely and took your blessing." 36 Esau said, "Not for nothing was he named Jacob, the Heel. Twice now he's tricked me: first he took my birthright and now he's taken my blessing." He begged, "Haven't you kept back any blessing for me?" 37 Isaac answered Esau, "I've made him your master, and all his brothers his servants, and lavished grain and wine on him. I've given it all away. What's left for you, my son?" 38 "But don't you have just one blessing for me, Father? Oh, bless me my father! Bless me!" Esau sobbed inconsolably. 39 Isaac said to him, You'll live far from Earth's bounty, remote from Heaven's dew. 40 You'll live by your sword, hand-to-mouth, and you'll serve your brother. But when you can't take it any more you'll break loose and run free...

2. From the Book of Genesis, Chapter 32:

1 And Jacob went his way. Angels of God met him. 2 When Jacob saw them he said, "Oh! God's Camp!" And he named the place Mahanaim (Campground).
[actually, "Mahanaim" is a plural, it means "the CampgroundS, as if there were at least two, one for the Elohim (the Officers) and one for the malakim (the Troops). It makes much more sense both lexically and militarily]

3. From the Book of Genesis, Chapter 18:

1 God appeared to Abraham at the Oaks of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance of his tent. It was the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing. He ran from his tent to greet them and bowed before them. 3 He said, "Master, if it please you, stop for a while with your servant. 4 I'll get some water so you can wash your feet. Rest under this tree. 5 I'll get some food to refresh you on your way, since your travels have brought you across my path." They said, "Certainly. Go ahead." 6 Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. He said, "Hurry. Get three cups of our best flour; knead it and make bread." 7 Then Abraham ran to the cattle pen and picked out a nice plump calf and gave it to the servant who lost no time getting it ready. 8 Then he got curds and milk, brought them with the calf that had been roasted, set the meal before the men, and stood there under the tree while they ate.

4. From the Book of Exodus:

34 God spoke to Moses: "Take fragrant spices - gum resin, onycha, galbanum - and add pure frankincense. Mix the spices in equal proportions 35 to make an aromatic incense, the art of a perfumer, salted and pure - holy.

5. From the Book of Leviticus:

1 God called Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting: 2 "Speak to the People of Israel. Tell them, When anyone presents an offering to God, present an animal from either the herd or the flock. 3 "If the offering is a Whole-Burnt-Offering from the herd, present a male without a defect at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting that it may be accepted by God. 4 Lay your hand on the head of the Whole-Burnt-Offering so that it may be accepted on your behalf to make atonement for you. 5 Slaughter the bull in God's presence. Aaron's sons, the priests, will make an offering of the blood by splashing it against all sides of the Altar that stands at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 6 Next, skin the Whole-Burnt-Offering and cut it up. 7 Aaron's sons, the priests, will prepare a fire on the Altar, carefully laying out the wood, 8 and then arrange the body parts, including the head and the suet, on the wood prepared for the fire on the Altar. 9 Scrub the entrails and legs clean. The priest will burn it all on the Altar: a Whole-Burnt-Offering, a Fire-Gift, a pleasing fragrance to God. 10 "If the Whole-Burnt-Offering comes from the flock, whether sheep or goat, present a male without defect. 11 Slaughter it on the north side of the Altar in God's presence. The sons of Aaron, the priests, will throw the blood against all sides of the Altar. 12 Cut it up and the priest will arrange the pieces, including the head and the suet, on the wood prepared for burning on the Altar. 13 Scrub the entrails and legs clean. The priest will offer it all, burning it on the Altar: a Whole-Burnt-Offering, a Fire-Gift, a pleasing fragrance to God. 14 "If a bird is presented to God for the Whole-Burnt-Offering it can be either a dove or a pigeon. 15 The priest will bring it to the Altar, wring off its head, and burn it on the Altar. But he will first drain the blood on the side of the Altar, 16 remove the gizzard and its contents, and throw them on the east side of the Altar where the ashes are piled. 17 Then rip it open by its wings but leave it in one piece and burn it on the Altar on the wood prepared for the fire: a Whole-Burnt-Offering, a Fire-Gift, a pleasing fragrance to God.

A BBQ to God ?  Huh
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #2 - 12/01/14 at 05:53:33
 
NOW,,, No,, AGAIN,,  You have offered up yet another "Out thereaa' idea, AND not without support.. However,, regardless of this being true or not, I, I have individually had experiences from childhood that PROVE Jesus to me,, Ive had prayers answered, Ive had BAD experience where Jesus was part of it, Proving the daerk side.So, the spirit realm is reral, facts behind it appesr real so far,, When you comin?we NEED to visit..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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thumperclone
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #3 - 12/01/14 at 05:56:35
 
may you and yours be blessed
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #4 - 12/01/14 at 07:22:38
 
Hi JOG, no, I was NOT trying to wind you up Smiley

I was just describing a few items for discussion I found in (the original Italian version of) a book I came across and bought out of sheer curiosity.
Aaaand... WOW was I wowed !

You see, what happens in this book is that the author actually explains:

1. the difference between the many various versions of the Torah available to pious Jews; for example, most modern Jews use the "Masoretic Torah",
"maintained and conserved" by the Masoretes, that is, the "Pious Watchers" who ensured the strictest purity of the Torah.
Unfortunately, as they lived in (Christian) Europe, they also proved to be the very ones who modified the Torah up to a documented 10thousand times,
often to protect the Jewish communities by "proving the Torah was in line with the Christian Old Testament" (lest they be persecuted - once again - for preaching anti-Christian theories... Roll Eyes )

Then there are the original Jews who never left the Holy Land, and they use the "Rabbinical Torah", which dates back to the 2nd Century BC but is often not in line with the Masoretic texts.

Then there is the Ethiopian Torah which dates back to Menelik, son of King Solomon and Queen Sheba... from perhaps 1500BC...

Sooo... whose texts are actually the good ones ? Especially when it comes to the Book of Genesis and the chapters on Creation, Amad& Eve, and the drive from Paradise... Roll Eyes

2. Then there is the Christian Old Testament: which is the correct one ?

Catholics use St.Jerome's Vulgata, which is largely based on translations from the Septuagint... as was made available to Bishops after the Council of Nicea...

Most Protestants abide by the King James' Version, which is mased on the Masoretic Torah...

The Orthodox Church abides by the Coptic Septuagint, which is an older version of the Septuagint as was available in the Library of Alexandria before it was all burned down for yet another, third time.

So, all in all, we have three currents of Judaism using three different texts, and the three fundamental Confesisons of Christianity who use three different versions of yet other texts.

So much for wanting to start a fight over semantics...

Now comes the interesting part.

Often, copyists (i.e. monks who were given the task to copy a book and make a number of copies) were either only partially literate, or were illiterate in the language they were tasked to copy,
hence they "copied" books, page by page, line by line, word by word...
...without understadning a single thing!
They were essentially copiyng doodles for 300, 400 pages at a time...
Embarrassed
...which generated errors...

Then, often, copyists had no clue on the geographical, social, cultural, linguistic nor social characteristics of the events they were copying,
and sometimes changed this or that word in order to "cleanse" the crudity of the facts they were writing down, or misunderstood idiomatic expressions and geographical descriptions!

(example: after his flight from Sodom, Lot is made drunk by his daughters and they "lie with him"; oh... how gross to the eyes of a medieval monk, crushed by his vows of purity, chastity and celibacy...
...but if you read Genesis, ALL Patriarchs were champions of debauchery by modern standards... which were NOT the standards in 4000 BC !!!)

(example: YHWH promises Moses dominion of "all lands from the Red Sea to the "River of Babylon"... which was NOT modern day Tigris&Euphrates,
but the name of a wadi (seasonal brook) used in those days to discern the rough geographical boundary between Egyptian and Assyrian/Babylonian rule in the middle of the Jordanian desert !)

(example: [this is really a good one] in Exodus 22:18 we read (KJV) "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" ...  Roll Eyes ... which later became the Christian justification to burn people at the stake.
BUT
In the original Hebrew, we only have three words (as written by Moses) "witch" "no" "life" which, culturally and religiously, IN THOSE DAYS and IN THAT EGYPTIAN RELIGION
(rememberm Moses was raised as Egyptian Royalty) meant "The Priests [of the House of the Dead] [actually] do not [have the secret of] [bringing back to] life"
Cool
Oh... boy... talk about... LOST IN TRANSLATION... !!!

I could personally go on, for hours, discussing this, because it makes perfect, wonderful, mouth-watering, tears-in.your-eyes, heart-warming sense to rehabilitate the original meaning of what was written,
according to the original culture,
according to the original meaning,
according to the original geography,
according to the original customs and lore,
according to the original rule of law...

If any one of you takes the gauntlet and spends those $10 to buy the e-Book (the guy wrote 4 books and is about to release a fifth)
it won't make you an atheist, it won't make you have nightmares, lose weight, win the lottery or even get 100mpg on your old pickup...

Quite the contrary, I personally became "friends" with many principal and lesser characters of the Old testament, which are often shunned in Sunday School because they apparently have little/nothing to teach...

Roll Eyes

Think again...  Wink
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #5 - 12/01/14 at 07:30:30
 
Some folks prefer the message of one preacher, tone, inflection, HOW he dissects the word, others, not so much, somes voices irritate me, others resonate with them,, Im diggin Keith Moore. Clips online and a buddy brought me abut 200 CD's of Moore.. I like Joseph Prince and Kenneth Copeland a lot, too.. Of course, Kenneth Hagin CAN be had, but mostly books, since he died a few years ago,, THEN theres Smith Wigglesworth,, Lester (?) Sumrall, who went to visit hin  just prior to WWII. Smith is said to have raised as many as 20 from the dead.. Of course, that wasnt HIM,,
OHH,, I Like Joyce Meyers, too.. The typical female voice is irritating to me when theyre preaching, IDK about hers, BUT, the messages are so important I LIsten,,, and WOO Hoo fo DVR's!
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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mpescatori
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #6 - 12/01/14 at 07:38:08
 
thumperclone wrote on 12/01/14 at 05:56:35:
may you and yours be blessed


Hi Thumperclone, I am often at odds with my own mother (and a very devout Catholic) over "the garbage I read".

She once actually gave me a book, "The Gospel of Jesus" (essentially a condensed version of the Four Gospels into a Sunday School read for grown-ups).

I read it, and wrote my own essay... not to debunk, but to clarify errors and misunderstandings which are common this very day...
...to which she cried out "you are a creature of the Devil!"
Shocked
ME ?
Because I took the trouble to read the whole thing and write about it ?
Because I took the trouble to discuss things with my Vicar, and to exchange emails with a few Bishops ?
(there are more Bishops in Rome than birds in the sky, says an old Roman saying...  Wink )

Then I discussed this with my youngest brother, who is... guess what... a Father !  Cheesy



Guess who is who !  Cool

I insist, to this day, "Doubt is a form of Faith" because it proves I am constantly thinking about it and researching.

I am not and never will be one of those pious old ladies who sit and run Rosary beads through their fingers as if there was no tomorrow.



My idea of a "good Christian" ?

THIS GUY IS ACTUALLY ONE OF ITALY'S FUNNIEST COMEDIANS - SAFE FOR CHILDREN TOO !



6 months/year he's on the stage, making fun of those who laugh so hard they pee themselves... LIVE !

6 months/year he's in Africa, doing all sorts of charity...



...with HIS OWN MONEY !  Cool
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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mpescatori
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #7 - 12/01/14 at 07:53:43
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/30/14 at 22:43:46:
I simply no longer CARE... Ive been listening to Bible teaching, solid, day in, day out,, I am simply no longer interested in politics.. Its gonna be what its gonna BE and MY job is to pray,, and thats what IM doin.. Im getting better in every way, I use faith words and keep right faith ideas and I am happier than when I was studying negativity..


WRONG, MAN, WRO-O-ONG...

If Jesus never cared... would he have gone on and walked up and down across Judea and Galilee just for the sake of it...
...or did he do it because he was under contract to advertise sandals ?
...or did he do all that he did because HE CARED ?
Smiley
CARE is the easiest, most direct, cheapest, low-environmental-impact form of LOVE.

You don't like that guy over there ? Fine, ignore him. Let him go, free. Let that sparrow fly into the widow pane, if it makes him any the wiser.

BUT DON'T GIVE UP !

You are not interested in politics ?
Roll Eyes
OK
Roll Eyes
Yo sho ?
Roll Eyes
No ?
Undecided
Me neither...
Grin
Politics is that wonderful game of games where one participates in the common life of one's own society.

In ancient Greek, "POLITIKE' " meant just that, "participation"; a man with no political rights was one who was not entitled to vote, i.e. cut off from participation.

Are you sure you really want to cut your lil'own star out of the Star-Spangled banner ? Leave a hole in it ?
Huh
From what I know about you... from how I know you... I don't think so.
Smiley
So relax, look after your family, look after your neighbors, feed that hungry homeless mongrel that's wreaking havoc with the neighborhood garbage bins...
...and sleep tight...

... 'cause ...



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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #8 - 12/01/14 at 09:16:25
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/30/14 at 22:43:46:
I simply no longer CARE... Ive been listening to Bible teaching, solid, day in, day out,, I am simply no longer interested in politics.. Its gonna be what its gonna BE and MY job is to pray,, and thats what IM doin.. Im getting better in every way, I use faith words and keep right faith ideas and I am happier than when I was studying negativity..


I understand JOG, good for you.  After spending some time learning more about what makes the wheels go round, my conclusion is the only way the world we live in will get better will be by some form of "Divine Intervention".
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #9 - 12/01/14 at 14:25:25
 
I think that's a good thing...
However the world is run,... us proles can't do anything about it...
We just live...

You just better stick around here and keep contributing your lighter side...
I'd really miss that sly Texas humor...  Wink...

Peace,
Serow
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #10 - 12/01/14 at 14:39:28
 
try to find the motive behind the "new testament"
it was written hundreds of years after the deeds portrayed
now here is a real can of worms collusion for you conspiracy buffs
not to mention the translations/edits/revisions that have transpired
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #11 - 12/01/14 at 15:56:49
 
So much for wanting to start a fight over semantics...


Said Pesci,,



SO!!! NOW YOure an anti semantic TOO are ya!  

Smiley
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #12 - 12/01/14 at 16:03:31
 
The,  “The Urantia Book”

Is it a Hoax, Fiction, the new Truth, or just a good read?
Don’t have a clue.  (Yet).

In looking back, once people thought the world was flat.
It was also universally thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth.
Recently, Penicillin/s, Steam, Internal combustion engines, Electricity, Etc, Etc,
were, discovered.

What will happen in the future ?  Just 45 years ago.
In 1969, the computers, that were the size of several garages,
allowed man to land on the moon, and they cost Billions of dollars,
are now replaced in greater power,
and the size of a matchbox, and costing less than 100.00 dollars.

I am NOT a, ‘follower’, or part of a ‘Cult’, that is devoted to: The Urantia Book.

I use it as a illustration, of something that may, MAY, be before it’s time.

However, WE, You and I, Here NOW, are responsible for OUR, destiny.
Not, ‘intervention’, from a God, or other Deity, or Buda, or Allah, Etc.
Or someone from Outer Space.

WE, are, responsible.  WE, need to be aware.

Just as when you get on your M.C., you are, “Aware” of everything around you!

Today, it’s Politics and Policies, of elected and appointed people.
Get Involved.  Do Something !
Do not let someone else ‘do’ things for you.
than AFTER, those things are done,  Complain to your neighbor,
while you are eating Pizza and watching TV re-runs.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #13 - 12/01/14 at 16:17:58
 
For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good , and simple concerning evil.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Guess what!!!
Reply #14 - 12/01/14 at 16:52:16
 
I can attest that I tried for most of my life to believe......

And not until I quit trying to understand (it), with just plain old surrendering to HIS will, sincerely......

Was I given the Spirit.....

Where goodness me, what use to befuddle me made perfect sense now.....

Talk about a blind man given sight.....

That was me.

Not only do I know for certain my life changed drastically, but people who just saw me inquired as to what had happen with me, as they could see a change, literally.

The hardest thing about believing is realizing so many you love will never surrender and be darned to eternal hell.

I am happy for you JOG, I pray for your witness  Kiss
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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