SuzukiSavage.com - seized cylinder on gas cap lock

thefattony

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seized cylinder on gas cap lock
10/17/14 at 11:31:19

So I just got my 01 Ls650 w/ 6k miles on it yesterday. I took it for a nice little 30 mile jaunt, on the way home, cruising at about 60 down an overpass the beast gave me a heavy chug and a clunk and then rapid deceleration, turns out I was outta gas. No big deal limped it to the shoulder (brief panic) then realized what my issue was and flipped it to reserve and putted over to a gas station right up the road (10:30 pm Est)

Cut to 11:00 pm I am still futzing with this gas cap key and having 0% success.

the whole cap will move when the key is turned (approx 30 Degrees) but the actually key cylinder in the cap doesn't budge.

I have tried coaxing it every way I could, pressing down on cap, trying different key placement etc.

Anyway, I decided to throw in the towel after 30 min and just see if the reserve would get me home (not knowing what I know now that the reserve is between 1/4 and 1/2 the tank)

So now I am at work and after general research I am thinking about going out to get some graphite lube and/or PB blaster and shooting that in there to see what happens.

After much searching on this forum I have seen that the search for a keyless gas cap has been a long fought battle (along with a kick start lol) so please forgive me if I overlooked a similar thread previous, I tried.

Any advice on how to get some fuel in my bike so I can ride in some of this beautiful FL weather today would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17818 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock Reply #1 - 10/17/14 at 11:45:44 Well....if you can't get the cylinder to come loose......not sure what to do. Filling the tank by pumping fuel backwards through the fuel line and petcock is possible if you switch the petcock to the "PRIME" positions.....but that is not really a suggestion or solution.
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verslagen1

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Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock
Reply #2 - 10/17/14 at 12:02:43

thefattony wrote on 10/17/14 at 11:31:19:

the whole cap will move when the key is turned (approx 30 Degrees) but the actually key cylinder in the cap doesn't budge.

If the whole cap is moving then 1 of the screws has fallen out of the back. I don't know if that will keep the lock from turning.

If the cylinder isn't turning then either you got the wrong key or something else. It's pretty easy to pick (considering I can do it) so take it to a locksmith if you have to.

Other than that, keep trying the key, maybe the other screw will fall out.

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thefattony

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Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock
Reply #3 - 10/17/14 at 12:14:05

verslagen1 wrote on 10/17/14 at 12:02:43:

thefattony wrote on 10/17/14 at 11:31:19:

the whole cap will move when the key is turned (approx 30 Degrees) but the actually key cylinder in the cap doesn't budge.

If the whole cap is moving then 1 of the screws has fallen out of the back. I don't know if that will keep the lock from turning.

If the cylinder isn't turning then either you got the wrong key or something else. It's pretty easy to pick (considering I can do it) so take it to a locksmith if you have to.

Other than that, keep trying the key, maybe the other screw will fall out.

Ok, Thank you.

So I am fairly confident (99%) sure its the correct key, because my Grandfather (who purchased the bike on my behalf bc it was in the county he lives in) has had the cap off and fueled the bike prior to having it brought up to me where I live. (he mentioned when I talked to him today that removal of the cap was pretty difficult for him as well)

I did notice a heavy rattle of the gas cap at speeds over 40mph or high RPM (based on sound obviously). At first I feared this rattle to be the dreaded cam chain issue (one I know I will need to address but hopefully not for a few more thousand miles) but realized by placing the weight of my hand on the gas cap while riding at speed that it was the cap rattling around. just in case that make a difference

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Tocsik Serious Thumper Offline the singularity Posts: 1140 Denver, CO Gender:	Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock Reply #4 - 10/17/14 at 12:18:24 That rattling is most likely the speedometer rattle. It's a common problem on the Savage.
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stewmills

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Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock
Reply #5 - 10/17/14 at 12:38:23

I've been in my gas cap innards recently trying to get rid of a rattle in there also (it's definitely in my gas cap and not the speedo...went through that discussion in another thread). However, doesn't mean you don't have a speedo rattle too.

Anyhow, in putting my cap back together I noticed that if you barely had the two screws loose it was enough to let the little 'tits' that catch and disengage the two locking pins jump over the catch/groove and just spin freely and not do anything. Sounds to me like that's what you have going on, unfortunately.

With that, if it is for that reason I am not sure if a locksmith can pick it because if the right key is turning the tumbler and it isn't catching the 'tits' he's not able to get in that part of the lock from the key hole I don't think. But I'm no locksmith either so you could have some success. Only one way to find out.

Good luck!

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thefattony

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Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock
Reply #6 - 10/17/14 at 13:01:49

stewmills wrote on 10/17/14 at 12:38:23:

With that, if it is for that reason I am not sure if a locksmith can pick it because if the right key is turning the tumbler and it isn't catching the 'tits' he's not able to get in that part of the lock from the key hole I don't think. But I'm no locksmith either so you could have some success. Only one way to find out.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info, However Im not sure if thats the exact same issue (however I am more than likely wrong Tongue

) but the tumbler doesnt spin at all letalone enough to just spin freely and not catch.

when I turn the key the tumbler remains frozen and the whole cap assembly shakes back and for (approx 30 degrees) with the tumbler in the middle remaining in the same position within the cap ....

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28761 L.A. California Gender:	Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock Reply #7 - 10/17/14 at 13:49:54 I would not try to drill it out if you're leaning that way. It just jams up the "pins" and you'll have to use a large drill to remove most of the cylinder to get it free. I'll have to look at the assembly to see why it's able to turn at all.
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verslagen1

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Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock
Reply #8 - 10/17/14 at 15:46:34

It seems to me the "fix" is to re-engage the "tits" with the lock.
One screw seems to have fallen out and the other is loose.
You can continue to vibrate it till it falls out too then the cylinder will release the cap.
You'll just have to go fishing for whatever fell in and go back and retrieve the cap.
Of course the fun part is putting the gas back in. Huh

I'll have a look at the assembly later.

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jcstokes Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com is very useful Posts: 2119 Mauku New Zealand Gender:	Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock Reply #9 - 10/17/14 at 16:04:05 Maybe everyone should check those screws now. I just have.
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oldNslow Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2679 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock Reply #10 - 10/17/14 at 17:40:43 jcstokes wrote on 10/17/14 at 16:04:05: Maybe everyone should check those screws now. I just have. I'm on my way out the the garage right now. I have never,ever, paid any attention to the doggone gas cap. Not being able to put gas in the bike would really screw up a nice long ride !
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HondaLavis Senior Member Offline It's nothing personal; the other one came first. Posts: 451 Plano, TX	Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock Reply #11 - 10/18/14 at 20:31:08 Easy stuff first. You said you were thinking about shooting some PB blaster in there. Did you ever actually do it?
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thefattony

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Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock
Reply #12 - 10/20/14 at 09:26:28

HondaLavis wrote on 10/18/14 at 20:31:08:

Easy stuff first. You said you were thinking about shooting some PB blaster in there. Did you ever actually do it?

Sorry for the delay, I try to spend as little of my weekend in front of a PC as I can, but thanks for all the response it has been very useful. Not in anyway successful, but useful an appreciated none the less.

I have tried Graphite Lubricant, to no avail (the lock cylinder has budged a bit, but not much) so next will be PB blaster, that is after I spend another hour playing the key jiggle game hoping screws fall out or something happens...

any further input is more than welcome

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock Reply #13 - 10/20/14 at 09:46:01 Graphite is good. Doesn't attract dust. If you have rust, you need oil.
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verslagen1

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Re: seized cylinder on gas cap lock
Reply #14 - 10/20/14 at 10:00:30

Here's what I'm thinking...
The back of the cap has 2 ribs that engage the tank...
and it's retained to the front by 2 screws...
if you can turn the cap 30°, that means the 2 screws are loose/missing.
if that's true, then turning the front will at some point unlock the cap.
Although, you need a little more rotation.

I would try the key again, try pulling it out a little, pushing it in hard, jiggling it around, up, down and then turn the key around and repeat.
If the cylinder is not moving any and seems like it's glued to the cap, I'd fill it up with acetone, it'll soften any solidified gas. But carb cleaner might be a better idea as it won't eat up the rubber/plastic inside.

Last resort would be to get an impact puller and pull the cylinder.

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