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Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected (Read 155 times)
Dane Allen
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Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
02/18/14 at 14:13:38
 
Another Socialist "paradise" is flushed down the drain taking a beautiful country with it, these people are in for some hardcore suffering the next few decades. This is where we are going and with furious applause from the left.

This is a fascinating article at the link and the links the author links to but this one point just jumped out at me and is at the core or the difference between Conservatives and liberals.

http://isthisblogon.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/its-happening-in-real-time-pay-a...

Quote:
What makes an outlook “conservative” is that it is rooted in an attitude about the past rather than in expectations of the future. The first principles of conservatism are propositions about human nature and the way human beings behave in social context; about limits, and what limits make possible. This practicality,this attention to experience, to workable arrangements, explains why the conservative community can be liberal and tolerant toward its members in ways that the progressive left cannot.

In contrast to the conservative outlook, liberal and radical ideologies are about the future, about desired outcomes. The first priciples of the left are the priciples of politically constructing a “better world.”

Throughout the modern era, the progressive future has been premised on a social contract that would make all of society’s members equal – or at least provide them with equal starting points.

Since ideologies of the left are commitments to an imagine future, to question them is to provoke a moral rather than an empirical response: Are you for or against the equality of human beings? To dissent from the progressive viewpoint is not a failure to assess relevant facts but an unwillingness to embrace a liberated future. It is, therefore, to will the imperfections and injustices of the present order. In the current cant of the left, it is to be “racist, sexist, classist,” a defender of the status quo.

That is why not only radicals, but even those who call themselves liberals, are instinctively intolerant toward the conservative position.
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Dane Allen
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #1 - 02/18/14 at 14:23:14
 
I just wanted to expound on this particular part of the post above:

Quote:
Since ideologies of the left are commitments to an imagine future, to question them is to provoke a moral rather than an empirical response: Are you for or against the equality of human beings? To dissent from the progressive viewpoint is not a failure to assess relevant facts but an unwillingness to embrace a liberated future. It is, therefore, to will the imperfections and injustices of the present order. In the current cant of the left, it is to be “racist, sexist, classist,” a defender of the status quo.


We have all heard the ultimatum from liberals - "Support such-and-such or you are racist!!"

We have all dismissed this kind of argument as that of a lazy or deficient mind, someone who cares about something but is either too lazy or dumb to come up with a decent argement or there is no means of support so it is just vile smoke and mirrors.

But the more likely reason is what the liberal is really saying is "Support my make-believe, fantasy future or else you support all the bad stuff I have worked so hard to daydream-out of my make-believe fantasy future!!!"

As usual, it turns out to be more about the individual making the demand rather than actual care for someone else. It becomes a case of look "how great I am for thinking of a future where XYZ doesn't happen anymore and everyone is equal, I am better than everyone who doesn't agree with me because XYZ is hurts people."

Example - Obamacare wasn't about healthcare, it was about Obama.
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #2 - 02/18/14 at 15:45:51
 
I hope those who supported Bammicare have at least enough guts to see not just how wrong they were, but how easily duped they are., KNOWING how easily duped they are, they SHOULD choose to not vote, because they know theyre so likely to be suckered again,, Now, IF someone supported Nafta AND fell for Bammicare, then Surely theyll see how dangerous their opinions are & SHUT UP.. The nations should not be subjected to the "opinions" of such morons. They dont actually Have opin ions, because they dont look for info that would contradict what their "Ohh so trusted puppet in politics" has Told them to believe. Theyre just parrots,  with a voter registration,, some of the worlds most dangerous people. Look where theyve gotten us? & they embeace any and all behaviors Except for conservatism,, They will NOT tolerate people like me,,
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #3 - 02/18/14 at 15:54:57
 
Reality check...
"Obamacare",.. is the adoption of a Conservative plan... Mandated Private Health Insurance was supported by the Conservative ideologies, until it was accepted and adopted by Obama...
Then, and only then, Conservatives decided to hate it...
Obama wanted a Nationalized Healthcare,... basically Medicare for everyone...
... but, a mandate was all the Right would accept...

Now, what made the minds change?...
What made the Right shun their own creation?...
Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #4 - 02/18/14 at 16:14:07
 
If thats true, then why was it we couldnt even know what was in  it till it was voted in? YOull naturally show the voters who passed it.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #5 - 02/18/14 at 16:48:12
 
Ukraine is crumbling as well.  The pictures are horrifying.
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Dane Allen
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #6 - 02/18/14 at 17:39:50
 
Serowbot wrote on 02/18/14 at 15:54:57:
Reality check...
"Obamacare",.. is the adoption of a Conservative plan... Mandated Private Health Insurance was supported by the Conservative ideologies, until it was accepted and adopted by Obama...
Then, and only then, Conservatives decided to hate it...
Obama wanted a Nationalized Healthcare,... basically Medicare for everyone...
... but, a mandate was all the Right would accept...

Now, what made the minds change?...
What made the Right shun their own creation?...
Huh...


I must respectfully dissent!!

It most definitely was not a Conservative plan!!! There were some small parts of Obamacare in a Hertitage Foundation paper and also something pushed by Mitt Romney but there was nothing conservative about it. This was the Establishment Republicans we all hear about, big government liberal Republicans. Democrats took a seed and made a corrupt monster out of it.

There is nothing Conservative about the resdistribution of wealth, especially wealth taken from the poor and middle class and given to big pharma and big insurance and anyone else who is a big donor to Obama. Obamacare is everything Conservatism isn't.

The Right did not accept the mandate or anything else about it as demonstrated by Obamacare passing on a party line vote and after many kickbacks to liberals to buy their votes.  And no one (liberal) read it because we had to pass it before we could read it (which somehow passes for democracy but only small d democracy not actual Democracy).

In fact, it wasn't even fully written before it was passed.  Angry
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #7 - 02/18/14 at 21:02:00
 
If you consider the mandating of purchase of private health insurance... a small part of Obamacare, then I suppose you are correct...
It does seem to be the main objection to Obamacare...

It is the part of the Healthcare bill that Obama didn't want, but did concede to, in order to get passage...

PS... the "rebel of the Right"... McCain,... has now re-filpflopped... and is in support of "Obamacare... and wants fix it, rather than overturn it...
The "fix"... will be to drop the mandate... and essentially go to Obama's original idea... (which would be,... the option of Medicare for anyone that wants it, and still allowing the option to choose private insurance if you wish)...

This will be the resolution in the end... it will work, and will be widely accepted and liked...
It's just a matter of how many political contortions we must endure before the matter is settled...

Only in America,.. would it be considered a "freedom"... to face financial ruin due to an unforeseeable medical tragedy...

Inconceivable in most any other civilized country...
The rest of the world, thinks of us, as a sort of idiot savant nation...
Honestly... Grin...

PS, Dane,... thanks for the +1 on the "Hall of Fame" sticky...
The thread wasn't my idea,.. I was just assigned to dress it...
Are you past 25k yet?... Let us know...
Wink...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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mpescatori
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #8 - 02/19/14 at 00:24:35
 
Right, you guys, I clicked on this thread because it was supposed to discuss Venezuela, and all I see is a number of people rating about something awkwardly off topic.

Angry

pg wrote on 02/18/14 at 16:48:12:
Ukraine is crumbling as well.  The pictures are horrifying.


I visited the Ukraine in...  Roll Eyes thinkthink Roll Eyes 2010 I believe.

The Ukraine is in turmoil very much like the Colonies were in turmoil in 1774 and 1775.
What is going to blow the powder keg ? Ukrainians revolting in Crimea, the "russian" enclave on the Black Sea.

I cannot predict the future, but my estimates are that this summer of 2014 will see a major political disaster over there.
Both Russia and the EU hold high stakes, and under Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko the Nation was growing closer and closer to doing very serious business with the US as well.

I am not talking about McDonalds Vs. Burger King... I am talking "chemical, military and heavy industry".

Watch that space. Next thing you know...



I pray THIS should never happen again...



Ride on
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Dane Allen
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #9 - 02/19/14 at 10:20:37
 
mpescatori wrote on 02/19/14 at 00:24:35:
Right, you guys, I clicked on this thread because it was supposed to discuss Venezuela, and all I see is a number of people rating about something awkwardly off topic.


Guilty!!!  Grin My appologies!! I think the point was that the US of A is following closely behind Venezuela and the Ukraine and will also fall if we are not careful.
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What happened?

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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #10 - 02/19/14 at 13:50:17
 
Ukraine declined joining the EU,, suddenly,,  much turmoil,, connection? I say so,.
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Dane Allen
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #11 - 02/19/14 at 17:31:17
 
Serowbot wrote on 02/18/14 at 21:02:00:
PS, Dane,... thanks for the +1 on the "Hall of Fame" sticky...
The thread wasn't my idea,.. I was just assigned to dress it...
Are you past 25k yet?... Let us know...
Wink...


It dressed well!! Not to 25k yet but have 13k in 10 months so maybe end of next year.
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #12 - 02/20/14 at 00:25:57
 
Ukraine needs to get its act together, soon. I'd really like to retire to Koktebel or Yalta. Nice beaches, hills, horses...

Oh well, Patagonia is nice too...
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mpescatori
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #13 - 02/20/14 at 01:37:55
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/19/14 at 13:50:17:
Ukraine declined joining the EU,, suddenly,,  much turmoil,, connection? I say so,.


That is not quite correct.

Under the Soviet regime, the Ukraine was simply one of the many republics which formed the Nation, very much like California or Texas contribute to the USA.

As a Soviet Republic, the Ukraine "suffered" mass immigration of ethnic Russians, who settled in the northern portion of the Country and in the Crimean Peninsula,
harbor to the 5^ Eskadra (manned almost entirely by ethnic Russians and Bielorussians), the Navy Task Force equivalent to USNavy's 6th Fleet in the Mediterranean.

But once the USSR disintegrated, the Ukraine opted for sovereignty, i.e. independence. This was in 1990.

Similarly, while being still equipped with 100% soviet equipment, the Ukraine opted out of the Warsaw Pact and its successor, the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO)
and applied to join NATO-funded Partnership for Peace (PfP).

Under Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko, the Ukraine began negotiations to join both the EU and NATO. Russia fiercely opposed this program.

PM Timoshenko lost the following elections to the "ethnic russian" opponent, who had her accused of a number of ugly charges and jailed.

She is still in jail, regardless the EU's calls for leniency (not pardon) and her ill state of health.

The current turmoils are only in part "EU-centric". What Ukrainians really want is the resignation of an openly pro-russian and corrupt regime and new elections.


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Dane Allen
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Re: Venezuela Crumbles -as Expected
Reply #14 - 02/20/14 at 08:46:29
 
mpescatori wrote on 02/20/14 at 01:37:55:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/19/14 at 13:50:17:
Ukraine declined joining the EU,, suddenly,,  much turmoil,, connection? I say so,.


....The current turmoils are only in part "EU-centric". What Ukrainians really want is the resignation of an openly pro-russian and corrupt regime and new elections.


And it can't come soon enough!!
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