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Accounatability (Read 342 times)
Paraquat
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Accounatability
08/28/13 at 09:20:41
 
In 2007, two Democratic presidential candidates came out forcefully against unleashing America’s military might without explicit authorization from Congress. Today, Vice President Joe Biden and President Barack Obama see things in a different light.

Six years ago, Biden vowed to impeach President George W. Bush if the Republican bombed Iran without first getting congressional approval.

"The president has no authority to unilaterally attack Iran, and if he does, as Foreign Relations Committee chairman, I will move to impeach," Biden said at the time.

Meanwhile, Obama flatly told the Boston Globe in 2007 that no president can use military force absent an “actual or imminent threat to the nation” without getting Congress' approval.

The Libya intervention stretched Obama’s commitment to the breaking point. The PolitiFact organization, which rates politicians’ claims for accuracy, ruled that his decision to commit American forces to that effort was a “full flop” from his previous position. But the question seems to turn on what constitutes an “actual” threat.

The looming U.S. response to Syria’s alleged massacre of civilians with chemical weapons threatens to expose some of the same tensions.

White House press secretary Jay Carney said on Tuesday that Obama “absolutely” still holds by his answer to the Boston Globe. Left unchecked, Carney said, Syria’s alleged use of chemical weapons poses an actual threat to U.S. national security.

“Allowing the use of chemical weapons on a significant scale to take place without a response would present a significant challenge to or threat to the United States' national security interests,” Carney said.

And Biden made clear in a rousing speech to the American Legion that the time for action is now.

“There is no doubt who is responsible for this heinous use of chemical weapons in Syria: The Syrian regime,” the vice president said. “The president believes — and I believe — that those who use chemical weapons against defenseless men, women and children should and must be held accountable.”

He did not, however, mention Congress.

http://news.yahoo.com/-past-comments-dog-obama--biden--as-syria-response-loom...


--Steve
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #1 - 08/28/13 at 19:14:26
 
I agree completely! No more military interventions in the Middle East. Period.

They are gassing their own people?? Horrible!! But wait, where are all the other wealthy Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia on this issue? Where do they stand? Why don’t they speak out and take action to deal with such atrocities in their own back yard??

Horrible regional crimes against humanity? Yes. But where are they??

If Mexico were gassing their people along the US border would we expect only Middle Eastern countries to intervene??...while we sat around going “oh my”, “tisk tisk”, while counting our oil money??

These Middle Eastern military adventures do nothing but pad the pockets of the arms industry robber barons while the blood and sacrifice falls on the shoulders of the poor middle and lower class working people who enlist their children into the military in the hope that will find opportunity and a better life there.

Absolutely disgusting.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #2 - 08/29/13 at 00:25:39
 
You GO, Lifter..tell them! Save me th trouble.
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #3 - 08/29/13 at 13:49:24
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/29/13 at 00:25:39:
You GO, Lifter..tell them! Save me th trouble.


wait .. is the sarcasm font on... I cant tell.

Actually.. I am with Star on this (mostly). Its someone elses turn to be the world police. UAE is as good as any.
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #4 - 08/29/13 at 15:57:39
 
Bombing Syria to make a point about observing internationally sanctioned methods of warfare (Geneva Convention) is laughable!!!

It's fall down funny hearing our government discuss war crimes.

These governmental hypocrites have no sense of decency…they are already as morally corrupt as Syria could ever be and maybe even more so considering our invasion of and mass murder in Iraq.

Ha! the torturing of detainees, the lies about WMD, the “collateral damage” the killing of innocents in drone attacks etc. …Uh-huh, we take the moral high ground and want to engage in more killing to prove it.

Left or right...What shameful hypocrisy!    

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Re: Accounatability
Reply #5 - 08/29/13 at 19:49:38
 
Starlifter wrote on 08/29/13 at 15:57:39:
Bombing Syria to make a point about observing internationally sanctioned methods of warfare (Geneva Convention) is laughable!!!

It's fall down funny hearing our government discuss war crimes.

These governmental hypocrites have no sense of decency…they are already as morally corrupt as Syria could ever be and maybe even more so considering our invasion of and mass murder in Iraq.

Ha! the torturing of detainees, the lies about WMD, the “collateral damage” the killing of innocents in drone attacks etc. …Uh-huh, we take the moral high ground and want to engage in more killing to prove it.

Left or right...What shameful hypocrisy!    



Spot on dude!

Which, begs the question(s), doubly so when Obama used the arguments against war, etc, in his campaign to win his office, to just who in the hell really runs our foreign policies?
Can these pukes just abandon their testimony (beliefs ?) so quickly upon such shallow reasoning to claim we are threatened? Could this be a push by the powers that be to "stimulate" our economy with a war?

I just don't know, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are good we are just witnessing the hypocrisy of our elected officials, AGAIN!  
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #6 - 08/29/13 at 21:08:20
 
Constitutionally, Congress has the power to declare war. As a practical matter, presidents - especially modern presidents - have wide latitude to respond to threats. Both are needed. Neither should be abused.

It does not appear that Obama's administration intends to go to war with Syria. It's been clear that unlike Lybya, the policy planners and strategists would prefer to not get directly involved in Syria. It is worth noting that a good number of high profile and influential Republicans  (lSenator McCain for instance) having been calling for US intervention in Syria for over a year now.

Neither Lyba or Syria is anything like what was done in Iraq. We did not "invade" Libya.  Rather a NATO lead campaign of air and missle strikes nullified the Libyan' armies airforce ana hampered thier mechanized infantry. Ths ultimately tipped the scales to the opposition. Unlike Iraq, American ground forces never fought against the Libyan army.

A coalition of western powers - France, Britianm, probably Germany and the Arab League for sure - intend to "punish" Syria for using chemical weapons. This is probably a good idea. It is in our best interests for world leaders to be afraid of the response should they ever do such. Assad will wake up one day in the near future to find that several command and control centers, maybe a few air wings are gone - and have to weigh if the use of chemical weapons was worth it.

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Re: Accounatability
Reply #7 - 08/29/13 at 23:05:16
 
Selling our oil to Japan and sending our youth to fight and die for middle eastern oil makes no sense except for the oil companies. Japan and the other countries we sell to pay more for our oil than the American companies do. Our kids are getting maimed and dying while the oil companies who pay no taxes, get subsidies from the government are getting richer while our kids lose it all. We have enough oil to sustain ourselves if we would quit selling to other countries! I'm with you Star! That's why I'm against the pipeline. Its headed straight for the gulf and on its way overseas.
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #8 - 08/30/13 at 03:27:54
 
Tony S wrote on 08/29/13 at 21:08:20:
Constitutionally, Congress has the power to declare war. As a practical matter, presidents - especially modern presidents - have wide latitude to respond to threats. Both are needed. Neither should be abused.

It does not appear that Obama's administration intends to go to war with Syria. It's been clear that unlike Lybya, the policy planners and strategists would prefer to not get directly involved in Syria. It is worth noting that a good number of high profile and influential Republicans  (lSenator McCain for instance) having been calling for US intervention in Syria for over a year now.

Neither Lyba or Syria is anything like what was done in Iraq. We did not "invade" Libya.  Rather a NATO lead campaign of air and missle strikes nullified the Libyan' armies airforce ana hampered thier mechanized infantry. Ths ultimately tipped the scales to the opposition. Unlike Iraq, American ground forces never fought against the Libyan army.

A coalition of western powers - France, Britianm, probably Germany and the Arab League for sure - intend to "punish" Syria for using chemical weapons. This is probably a good idea. It is in our best interests for world leaders to be afraid of the response should they ever do such. Assad will wake up one day in the near future to find that several command and control centers, maybe a few air wings are gone - and have to weigh if the use of chemical weapons was worth it.



From Seattle headlines.....

US readies possible solo action against Syria


The story:

By Associated Press Published: Aug 29, 2013 at 8:11 PM PDT


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama on Thursday prepared for the possibility of launching unilateral American military action against Syria within days as Britain opted out in a stunning vote by Parliament.

Facing skepticism at home, too, the administration shared intelligence with lawmakers aimed at convincing them the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its people and must be punished.

Despite roadblocks in forming an international coalition, Obama appeared undeterred and advisers said he would be willing to retaliate against Syria on his own.

"The president of the United States is elected with the duty to protect the national security interests in the United States of America," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said.

Even before the vote in London, the U.S. was preparing to act without formal authorization from the United Nations, where Russia has blocked efforts to seek a resolution authorizing the use of force, or from Capitol Hill. But the U.S. had expected Britain, a major ally, to join in the effort.

Top U.S. officials spoke with certain lawmakers for more than 90 minutes in a teleconference Thursday evening to explain why they believe Bashar Assad's government was the culprit in a suspected chemical attack last week. Lawmakers from both parties have been pressing Obama to provide a legal rationale for military action and specify objectives, as well as to lay out a firm case linking Assad to the attack.

A number of lawmakers raised questions in the briefing about how the administration would finance a military operation as the Pentagon is grappling with automatic spending cuts and reduced budgets.

Sen. Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, the top Republican on the Armed Services Committee and a participant on the call, said in a statement that the administration presented a "broad range of options" for dealing with Syria but failed to offer a single plan, timeline, strategy or explanation of how it would pay for any military operation.

Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and a call participant, told reporters that administration officials are in the process of declassifying the evidence they have of the Syrian government using chemical weapons.

"When they do that, we'll understand. But it's up to the president of the United States to present his case, to sell this to the American public. They're very war weary. We've been at war now for over 10 years," McKeon told reporters at a post-call news conference at his office in Valencia, Calif.

It remained to be seen whether any skeptics were swayed by the call, given the expectation in advance that officials would hold back classified information to protect intelligence sources and methods.

"The main thing was that they have no doubt that Assad's forces used chemical weapons," New York Rep. Eliot Engel, top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee and a supporter of Obama's course, said after the briefing.

But he said the officials did not provide much new evidence of that.

"They said they have (intercepted) some discussions and some indications from a high-level official," he said, and that they possess intelligence showing material being moved in advance of the attack.

He called the tone "respectful. There was no shouting. No one was accusing the administration of doing anything wrong."

Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said the briefing "reaffirmed for me that a decisive and consequential U.S. response is justified and warranted to protect Syrians, as well as to send a global message that chemical weapons attacks in violation of international law will not stand."

In London, Prime Minister David Cameron argued a military strike would be legal on humanitarian grounds. But he faced deep pressure from lawmakers and had already promised not to undertake military action until a U.N. chemical weapons team on the ground in Syria released its findings about the Aug. 21 attack.

The prime minister said in terse comments after the vote that while he believes in a "tough response" to the use of chemical weapons, he would respect the will of the House of Commons.

Caitlin Hayden, Obama's National Security Council spokeswoman, said the U.S. would continue to consult with Britain but Obama would make decisions based on "the best interests of the United States."

It was not certain the U.S. would have to act alone. France announced that its armed forces "have been put in position to respond" if President Francois Hollande commits forces to intervention against Syria. Hollande does not need French parliamentary approval to launch military action that lasts less than four months.

Obama discussed the situation in Syria with House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, who wrote to the president earlier this week seeking a legal justification for a military strike and the objectives of any potential action.

Assad, who has denied using chemical weapons, vowed his country "will defend itself against any aggression."

Some of the U.N. chemical weapons experts will travel directly from Syria on Saturday to different laboratories around Europe to deliver "an extensive amount of material" gathered, U.N. spokesman Farhan Haq said. While the mandate of the U.N. team is to determine whether chemical agents were used in the attack, not who was responsible, Haq suggested the evidence — which includes biological samples and witness interviews — might give an indication of who deployed gases.

Obama and other top officials have not revealed definitive evidence to back claims that Assad used chemical weapons on Syrians. U.S. officials say the intelligence assessments are no "slam dunk," with questions remaining about who actually controls some of Syria's chemical weapons stores and doubts about whether Assad himself ordered the strike.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the intelligence publicly.

Despite shortcomings in the intelligence, the White House signaled urgency in acting, with Earnest, the White House spokesman saying the president believes there is a "compressed time frame" for responding.

"It is important for the Assad regime and other totalitarian dictators around the world to understand that the international community will not tolerate the indiscriminate, widespread use of chemical weapons, particularly against women and children as they're sleeping in their beds," he said.

But many Congress members were pressing Obama to explain the need for military action and address fears that such a move might draw the U.S. deeper into the Syrian civil war.

The White House has not responded directly to Boehner's letter seeking more answers about Syria operations and the speaker's office appeared unsatisfied after the president's call Thursday.

"Only the president can answer these questions, and it is clear that further dialogue and consultation with Congress, as well as communication with the American public, will be needed," Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck said.

Washington Rep. Adam Smith, senior Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, cautioned that an attack might be ineffective and might draw the United States into the Syrian civil war, now in its third year.

"Simply lashing out with military force under the banner of 'doing something' will not secure our interests in Syria," Smith said in a statement.

Thursday's briefing for lawmakers was expected to include only unclassified intelligence, meaning that key details that could more clearly link Assad to a chemical attack might not have been part of it. A similar intelligence report is also expected to be released publicly on Friday.

Obama continued making his case for a robust response to world leaders, speaking Thursday with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. With national elections scheduled in Germany for next month, Merkel is unlikely to pull her country into a military conflict.

Merkel also discussed Syria by phone Thursday with Russian President Vladimir Putin, insisting that the attack "requires an international reaction," Merkel spokesman Steffen Seibert said.

Obama has ruled out putting American forces on the ground in Syria or setting up a no-fly zone over the country. He's also said any U.S. response to the chemical weapons attack would be limited in scope and aimed solely at punishing Assad for deploying deadly gases, not at regime change.

"We do have to make sure that when countries break international norms on weapons like chemical weapons that could threaten us, that they are held accountable," he said during a television interview.

The most likely military option would be Tomahawk cruise missile strikes from four Navy destroyers in the eastern Mediterranean Sea. At a minimum, Western forces are expected to strike targets that symbolize Assad's military and political might: military and national police headquarters, including the Defense Ministry; the Syrian military's general staff; and the four-brigade Republican Guard that is in charge of protecting Damascus, Assad's seat of power. Assad's ruling Baath Party headquarters could be targeted, too.

U.S. officials also are considering attacking military command centers and vital forces, communications hubs and weapons caches, including ballistic missile batteries.
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #9 - 08/30/13 at 07:53:20
 
Facing skepticism at home, too, the administration shared intelligence with lawmakers aimed at convincing them the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its people and must be punished.


Absolute load of crap. Assads people were winning.. No NEED to do this.
It was a rebel maneuver or screw up, Ive seen one report that states theymis-handled some weapons & they went off,,
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #10 - 08/30/13 at 10:50:54
 
The rebels don't have chemical weapons. We know that Libya's military does. Neither have the rebels overrun any military bases housing such weapons. Saying the rebels did it is like in the 1950's southern sheriffs  saying that black people committed suicide by jumping in water with concrete blocks and chains.

Perhaps no chemical weapons were used at all - so far the only proof offered publicly has been the symptoms of 350 or so people that died at the local hospital. The UN investigators were not allowed in until almost a week later - a week of constant artillery bombardment that would destroy evidence.

No way any one should buy into "the rebels did it to themselves". If you don't want the US involved, just say it's not vital to US interests and leave it at that. But taking seriously claims that rebels with little more than small arms managed to come up with chemical weapons just jumps the shark.
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #11 - 08/30/13 at 11:40:18
 
YEs,they do, They didnt make them. Are you unaware of the support we are giving them? We are seeing to it they GET what they need,
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #12 - 08/30/13 at 11:40:48
 
Just read some of the declassified sections of the report that's  online now. Seems pretty clear it was a chemical attack. Also seems clear the rebels had no capability of doing this. 1426 fatalities is what they're listing as confirmed.

Let's say for the sake of argument it's conclusive that he used chemical weapons against the rebels.

Now what do we do?
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #13 - 08/30/13 at 12:27:47
 
How about we demand that other Middle Eastern countries take action NOW! Or we cut off all their funding, munitions sales, imports etc.
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Re: Accounatability
Reply #14 - 08/30/13 at 12:42:12
 
Star -
For once ( write down this date in your calendar ) you and I are in exact agreement.
Have a good Labor Day weekend.
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