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Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build. (Read 213 times)
srinath
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Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
05/11/13 at 19:59:43
 
I've been playing with LED's to light up my house. I've done a few experiments and figured out what works and where for me. I just wanted to share some of it.

OK so LED's are bloody bright when you look at em, but bring em and install in a fixture and not only is it awful looking, its also bloody dim. Why ...

1 word - Viewing angle. There is more ... there are misleading terminology, incomprehensible jargon with them declaring their specs in Mcd when the world talks about watts etc etc etc ...

So what's the skinny.
Viewing angle - you draw and imaginary cone with the top angle of the cone being the angle they say for an LED. 15 degree is a common one, as is 30 etc etc ...
A light bulb in a can fitting - our standard kitchen light is a whopping 180 degree viewing angle. A bulb hanging form the ceiling with a mirrored ceiling is a 360 degree. Remember this is solid angle not 2d. here 90 degree X 4 is not 360 degrees. Its closer to 6 X. Lets call it 6 X 90.

Then a 100 watt bulb when new puts out about 135,000 mcd - this is courtesy google. Of course no one has a mirrored ceiling, and effectively we light up a nice 60-70 degree pool below the light, and the rest is wasted. So with a 60 degree LED with a 135,000 mcd is almost the same as a 100 watt bulb.

Now for the kicker. A light bulb makes 10-15 times more heat than light. Your light is say 3-5 watts worth, the rest is heat - and in winter it helps, but hurts in summer. I'll still say its helpful a little, cos we use lights at night, but just turning up the thermostat is better, cos light bulb's are near the ceiling, we need hot air by us, not @ the ceiling.

Anyway 135,000 mcd 60 degree LED = 100 watt bulb for 90% of bulb uses.

So what now -

Enter the magic 30,000 mcd LED - this one -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PCS-5mm-Super-Bright-Sunny-Warm-White-LED-Lamp-30-...

I have bought a few 100 from that seller, and I am impressed with their quality. @ 3.60 for a 100 warm white LED to your door it is a steal. Nothing compares ... they have some sorta wholesale deal on now. I bought me 400 more. I have like 200 assorted ones left over from before but rapidly running them into fixtures etc. Used 45 today. These are 25 degree - but it wont matter once you get through this whole thread.

OK so you now have a dime bag of LED's what next.

LED's have a Forward voltage. Vf. Apply that and they light up. They have a If - forward current - exceed that and they go poof.

Those guys like 3.4 - 3.6 Vdc and 30 ma. Actually they run fine on AC, but DC is better they dont flicker ... They dont with ac too ... but I would do dc. Safer and better.

OK so how do you feed them 3.4 v and give em 30 milliamp and no more.

Enter the cheapo Dc adapter (lap top charger or other charger adapter power supply of any kind). Smaller ones are better - they can be hidden easier.

So you get an adapter - 12v is very common - from the local goodwill store. I have a few grab bags - 3-4 in each for $2 I have bought.

Pick one - a small one is usually 12vdc and say 500 ma.
Your led is 3.3 vf - you string up 3 its a 10v - the 2 v that is left over - you put a 100 ohm resistor in series and you have automatically limited the current to 20 ma. Done.

The calculator is here for other voltages etc.

http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz

So back to our example - 3 LED's putting out 30,000 mcd = 90,000 and you're running 20 ma ... your adapter is capable of running 25 strings of 3 each. 22 million mcd.

Get a wafer board @ radioshack, solder in 3 X as many as you want leds the right way in series and you can use 1 big 100 ohm resistor to get all of em current limited properly.

I have noticed these make excellent under cabinet lights if you install them in one of em little wood boxes with velcro, they make excellent lights in torchieres - cos those light up the ceiling so you never see the bulb, and other hidden fittings like inside lamp shades or behind something.

They suck as overhead kitchen track lighting, and as bathroom lights. In short - If you can see the light bulb - they wont be the best choice.

Now the 25 degree - obviously the torchieres dont care you can direct them into the room a bit. Anywhere where there is some flexibility to turn the fixture or turning the led's in the fixture will get the part you want well lit. I put an angled wedge in the under cabinet fixture. Its nicely directed to where you need, and you can move it too. It runs cold. They can be touched after having been on for hours. They are cold.
Now LED's dont like being left on for over 16 hours at a time. You can turn em off - even 2-3 min, and they can be run again for another 16 hrs.

I hate those CFL's and LED's have been proven to not give any $$$ to Al Bore. There is a imported component yes, the LED's, the wafer board too probably, but the adapters are an industrial waste tossed out by people getting bored of their phones or what not. Biggest component is that and labor. I'll post pics when I finish the yellow/white bendable hybrid array I am working on.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Ed L.
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #1 - 05/12/13 at 07:34:35
 
Great idea, how about setting the LED's and perf board in a clear epoxy or acrylic block. with the low voltages and current needs have you tried to power a setup off a regular 9 volt battery?.  The sky is the limit with your idea, run with it.
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #2 - 05/12/13 at 11:26:15
 
I just ordered 100pcs...

Srin... lots of pics please?... ...(I'm gonna' have to follow your plans closely,... I'm not good with watts and volts)...



Quote:
Now LED's dont like being left on for over 16 hours at a time. You can turn em off - even 2-3 min, and they can be run again for another 16 hrs.

Did not know this... Huh...

Thanks for all the info...  
Keep talking... Grin...

PS... get's the award for most interesting ever in the TT...  Huh...
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« Last Edit: 05/12/13 at 18:29:53 by Serowbot »  

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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #3 - 05/12/13 at 11:51:42
 
PICS!!!!!!


and why is this in TT??
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #4 - 05/12/13 at 16:21:08
 
OK next point transformer vs switching power supply adapters -

A transformer based PS will make say 20-30% more under no load, but approach 1/2 the rated load and it will drop to its rated voltage. Try not to power it up unless you have 100 ma or so LED's ...

Switching PS'es they put out rates voltage under no load, or full load. All new cell chargers are this type. These are super light that's how you can tell. Power em up with 1 string and you can get it lit and keep it on with every subsequent string.

I'll post a pic ... but I blew 2 rows on the 5 row yellow + 5 white row hybrid ... so I am putting up the kitchen cabinet light in a bit.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #5 - 05/12/13 at 17:33:52
 
I agree with the politics mentioned( imports, etc). I am leaning this way in the kitchen. My under cabinet lites that illuminate the counter top have gone thru changes in the last 7 years. How DUMB was I? I actually bought those little hockey puck sized things with the halogen bulbs ( Uhh HEY! Says Right THERE theyre good for , IIRC, around 3,500 to 5,000 hours!)
Yea? REally? Well,, not ONly do those 4 or 5 little lites heat the kitchen up, they also cost about $4.00 a POP & the "Pop" about every 50 hours, if that!
So, Im now using tome skinny fl;uorescents, but one is literally "On the blink" & can be on or off at any time, depending on its mood & whether or not Im willing to give it the Fonzy Bump to make it lite up.

So,, keep up this post, Im looking at making changes NOW!
Thanks
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #6 - 05/12/13 at 20:33:30
 
Some little facts about led's as well as tips and ideas to those trying these crazy ideas of mine.

LED's are semicondutors as such they are diodes, and effectively can be used in almost all locations where diodes are used. Like my Luxman L 430 had like 30-40 in the circuit board - all red, lit up like a christmas tree as the different stages were energized.

They therefore have a resistance that drops as they heat up. They will draw more current, heat more, draw more, heat more etc etc etc till they blow. 16 hours is a good max time - most of em wont care till you get to 24 or 48 even ... but 16 just to be safe.

They have a design forward current - say 20 ma. Feed em 20 and they would run 100,000 hrs. Feed em 15 - and they wont be much dimmer @ 15 than @ 20 and they last forever. Feed em 25 and they go poof in 5 sec. The same with forward voltage. Shoot for a lower value ... resistor yourself to about 75-80% and you will never have to worry about em.

Under cabinet lights were my first attempt, and to be honest I did better in my first 2-3 than the later ones. You solder them sorta 3-4mm standing off the board, and solder them in crooked directions all of which I have eliminated now, and I solder them perfectly parallel and beautiful ... but .... well they beam, my latest 20 LED fixture - I can shine it across the street and you can read a book 30-40ft away. But you move 2ft and its dark. Haphazard soldering and letting them stand off the board lets you orient each one a little from the middle - like a porcupine and you get a nicer wider pool instead of 1 blinding spot light.

The reason under cabinet lights off the shelf @ Lowes suck is cos they are attempting to convert AC into DC with that little dinky switching regulating IC ... it goes poof and your lights are dead. Worse yet, it can overload the led and kill it too, pretty fixture, and useless even as a paper weight.

Anyway I got pics - working on hosting - but if someone wants em and is more fluent with posting em - I'll email.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #7 - 05/12/13 at 20:48:14
 
Ed L. wrote on 05/12/13 at 07:34:35:
Great idea, how about setting the LED's and perf board in a clear epoxy or acrylic block. with the low voltages and current needs have you tried to power a setup off a regular 9 volt battery?.  The sky is the limit with your idea, run with it.  



I like using wood with electronics. If water gets in, acrylic wont absorb it, wood will

9v battery I guess, but is there a reason why you were trying - it would be cordless - the batter is heavier than the whole fixture, you cant velcro it against gravity to the under side of your kitchen cabinet.

Cool.
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #8 - 05/12/13 at 21:02:49
 
Serowbot wrote on 05/12/13 at 11:26:15:
I just ordered 100pcs...

Srin... lots of pics please?... ...(I'm gonna' have to follow your plans closely,... I'm not good with watts and volts)...



Quote:
Now LED's dont like being left on for over 16 hours at a time. You can turn em off - even 2-3 min, and they can be run again for another 16 hrs.

Did not know this... Huh...

Thanks for all the info...  
Keep talking... Grin...

PS... get's the award for most interesting ever in the TT...  Huh...



Thanks ... we aim to please. No we dont.  Grin

The thing is pretty easy. You have those same ones I got right ? OK Get a perf board $5 bucks @ radio shack.
Your LED array depends on what you want to light up.
A kitchen under cab light is ~20 in 1 panel.
You can use the littlest adapter you can find. 20 use up a whopping 2 watts or so.
If your adapter is 12v dc and assuming its a transformer type of about 500ma - Your calculation is
3 of the led's strung + to - Like [+ - to + - to + -] That would total 10 10v. You have 2v left over in the 12 - your max current is 30ma lets say. I'd put a 100 ohm 1 watt resistor. You're @ 20 ma. But wont make any difference, it lights up just as good. In your perf board mark the + side and the -ve side. Then find the + side in the adapters 2 wires - cut off the plug. Then solder the + to the + on the board. Then solder the resistor. Then put the LED's 3 @ a time, and if you want 7 rows.
1 resistor for the whole set, 21 LED's sit em a bit off the board and try it. Get the LED's on the board before you light it up. The load keeps the circuit from overloading. If you use a switching PS - light em up @ the first row. Those dinky side ways fitting BS cell chargers are all switching. They work great too.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #9 - 05/12/13 at 22:18:41
 
I have not tried this, and if that number is right (and I dont doubt it is from that seller) this is a 60-75 watt bulb. All by itself - 1 led = 75 watt bulb - its got a 140 degree spread, you can put it in a can fixture and not even know its an LED.
This is all I know -
90 candela = 60+ watts incandescent.
140 spread = nearly all spread light from an incandescent bulb.
I've ordered a few ... lets see if I can post or am seeing blotches for weeks after ...

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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #10 - 05/12/13 at 22:44:45
 
I'm firstly, looking to subtlety light an entry alcove, (so I can find my frikkin' keyhole!)...
I hope to tap in from a day/night sensored porch light, and send a little juice into the entry... (maybe just a 3 or 6 bulb array)... (I have a selection of dc wall warts, .. possibly a 9v?)...
...I was under the impression,... at least with other other non-led powered things, that too much ma. output didn't matter,... only not enough... This is different with led's?...
Appreciate if you could advise based on a 9v power supply...

.. or,.. maybe I should just use a 3.6v usb type wall wart?... I can buy them from China for just a couple of bucks...
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #11 - 05/12/13 at 23:11:26
 
I think this otta be in the Cafe to give everyone a shot at it. Lots of folks dont come in here.
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #12 - 05/12/13 at 23:18:36
 
Srinath put it here...

I'll kick a person to the TT...   I won't kick them out...
Anything goes here... Wink...

Maybe he plans to post a refined version in the Cafe'...
...maybe not...

Interesting, post... anyway... Smiley...
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srinath
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #13 - 05/13/13 at 05:36:26
 
Serowbot wrote on 05/12/13 at 22:44:45:
I'm firstly, looking to subtlety light an entry alcove, (so I can find my frikkin' keyhole!)...
I hope to tap in from a day/night sensored porch light, and send a little juice into the entry... (maybe just a 3 or 6 bulb array)... (I have a selection of dc wall warts, .. possibly a 9v?)...
...I was under the impression,... at least with other other non-led powered things, that too much ma. output didn't matter,... only not enough... This is different with led's?...
Appreciate if you could advise based on a 9v power supply...

.. or,.. maybe I should just use a 3.6v usb type wall wart?... I can buy them from China for just a couple of bucks...



USD is 5v - and make sure it can put out atleast 1/2 amp.
I'll put pics up in a few.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: Who's into LED's, cheap DIY LED design+build.
Reply #14 - 05/13/13 at 05:52:19
 
How do I post from picasa web - it didn't work.


Cool.
Srinath.
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