SuzukiSavage.com - How the Welfare State Serves the Strong

Dane Allen

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How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
04/22/13 at 12:44:07

Here is an opinion piece that makes some excellent points. I expect our small cadre of liberals will no doubt cry foul due to the source and the content. But that is the whole point, these are ideas that you are open to refure on the grounds of logic and reason.

For the rest of us it just reinforces what we already know to be true, logical and reasonable.

Hat tip to Ace of Spades

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-whats-behind-the-funding...

For those who only are allowed to come into contact with approved information brokers there is this about the Scandinavian socialism:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/world/europe/danes-rethink-a-welfare-state-...;

And there is this article for fun:

http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/343842/social-security-disability-insura...

And we can't forget Obamacare(the rats are leaving the ship):

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/346228/putting-lipstick-obamacare-pig

Now, let's see all the open-minded liberals wow us with their mightly logic and reason skills that were alluded to in another post by Starlifter.

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rfw2003

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #1 - 04/22/13 at 12:51:28

Texas did away with welfare years ago, they replaced it with a limited assistance program that requires you to actively seek a job, and get employment as well. The new program they have doesn't pay even what un-employment pays, you don't even get enough to live off of. For a family of 3 (1 adult, 2 children) you only get $270 per month, and it's a limited time frame that you can even get that. Texas was seeing the abuse of the welfare system so they ended it and brought out the new system called TANF but as shown above it really isn't worth a darn anyways.

R.F.

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Dane Allen

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #2 - 04/22/13 at 13:38:12

rfw2003 wrote on 04/22/13 at 12:51:28:

Texas did away with welfare years ago, they replaced it with a limited assistance program that requires you to actively seek a job, and get employment as well. The new program they have doesn't pay even what un-employment pays, you don't even get enough to live off of. For a family of 3 (1 adult, 2 children) you only get $270 per month, and it's a limited time frame that you can even get that. Texas was seeing the abuse of the welfare system so they ended it and brought out the new system called TANF but as shown above it really isn't worth a darn anyways.

R.F.

Hopefully they did the right thing and reduced the cost to employers a proportional amount so that it is cheaper to hire people. It would be very stupid to cut welfare but contiune to tax business the same as before. In California the welfare costs are helping to drive businesses out of state.

I've been looking at moving near family in Texas to escape California.

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rfw2003

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #3 - 04/22/13 at 13:59:28

Dane Allen wrote on 04/22/13 at 13:38:12:

rfw2003 wrote on 04/22/13 at 12:51:28:

Texas did away with welfare years ago, they replaced it with a limited assistance program that requires you to actively seek a job, and get employment as well. The new program they have doesn't pay even what un-employment pays, you don't even get enough to live off of. For a family of 3 (1 adult, 2 children) you only get $270 per month, and it's a limited time frame that you can even get that. Texas was seeing the abuse of the welfare system so they ended it and brought out the new system called TANF but as shown above it really isn't worth a darn anyways.

R.F.

Hopefully they did the right thing and reduced the cost to employers a proportional amount so that it is cheaper to hire people. It would be very stupid to cut welfare but contiune to tax business the same as before. In California the welfare costs are helping to drive businesses out of state.

I've been looking at moving near family in Texas to escape California.

That I couldn't tell you, I haven't dug that deep into it. I didn't even find out about it till I applied for medicaid for my kids and me, while I'm fighting to get my SS disability. I've got family that helps with everything else, but my medical bills are just to much for anyone to pay for with out some type of insurance especially my heart meds alone, they run over $2500 per month if I had to pay in cash.

R.F.

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Dane Allen

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #4 - 04/22/13 at 15:11:02

rfw2003 wrote on 04/22/13 at 13:59:28:

Dane Allen wrote on 04/22/13 at 13:38:12:

rfw2003 wrote on 04/22/13 at 12:51:28:

Texas did away with welfare years ago, they replaced it with a limited assistance program that requires you to actively seek a job, and get employment as well. The new program they have doesn't pay even what un-employment pays, you don't even get enough to live off of. For a family of 3 (1 adult, 2 children) you only get $270 per month, and it's a limited time frame that you can even get that. Texas was seeing the abuse of the welfare system so they ended it and brought out the new system called TANF but as shown above it really isn't worth a darn anyways.

R.F.

Hopefully they did the right thing and reduced the cost to employers a proportional amount so that it is cheaper to hire people. It would be very stupid to cut welfare but contiune to tax business the same as before. In California the welfare costs are helping to drive businesses out of state.

I've been looking at moving near family in Texas to escape California.

That I couldn't tell you, I haven't dug that deep into it. I didn't even find out about it till I applied for medicaid for my kids and me, while I'm fighting to get my SS disability. I've got family that helps with everything else, but my medical bills are just to much for anyone to pay for with out some type of insurance especially my heart meds alone, they run over $2500 per month if I had to pay in cash.

R.F.

Wow, have you talked to the manufacturer? They usually have some assistance programs, that is how I got a new injection medicine that I used for about 6 months. I never wanted to be the guy that needs a handful of pills everyday but here I am. This is exactly why I opposed Obamacare soo strongly. In addition to all the other problems it causes, I have lost three doctors already, two specialists for my condition and our family doctor. Not only am I worried about not getting my meds I am also worried that there will not be anyone there to prescribe them.

I will probably get flagged by the death panel anyway Grin

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rfw2003

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #5 - 04/22/13 at 15:32:47

I'm kinda in the same boat, I'm having issues finding a new cardiologist right now that is within a reasonable driving distance that accepts medicaid Most of the Dr.'s around here have quit taking medicaid and medicare so even when I start getting my SS disability benefits I'll still be kinda screwed when it comes to Dr.'s around here.

As for the medication for now medicaid is paying for it, so I'm o.k. for now. Just worried about what my co-pay is gonna end up costing me when I finally get my SS stuff going. I hear the medicare insurance isn't very cheap.

R.F.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Reply #6 - 04/22/13 at 16:43:29 Wisconsin is a good welfare state,Any unmarried girl with a kid gets her rent paid for by the state. If she has another baby the state pays 75% of the cost.I live on the state line of Illinois and Wisconsin and a lot of Illinois girls come over the state line because Wisconsin is easier than Illinois for welfare.
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srinath

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #7 - 04/23/13 at 07:08:55

I love it when people trying to get or already on SS or disability or welfare are anti welfare state ... I guess they want no one on the gubbamint dole ... except them ... oh yea classic republiucommunist attitude ... everyone needs to pay their 25% taxes ... except me, I want to be @ 5% ... cos I am "job creator"

Seriously on a larger scale too, the first and so far only group Pat McCrory newly elected republicommunist guv'nor of NC shafted under his small govt umbrella ... unemployment benefits that he cut by 60% ... smartly he did not touch welfare or disability or SS or nothing like that bleeding the coffers dry.

Smart man, he knows his target republicommunist ... the rich who pay his campaign, and the ones on welfare/dole. The working class is to be shafted from all sides.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Dane Allen

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #8 - 04/23/13 at 10:22:22

srinath wrote on 04/23/13 at 07:08:55:

I love it when people trying to get or already on SS or disability or welfare are anti welfare state ... I guess they want no one on the gubbamint dole ... except them ... oh yea classic republiucommunist attitude ... everyone needs to pay their 25% taxes ... except me, I want to be @ 5% ... cos I am "job creator"

Seriously on a larger scale too, the first and so far only group Pat McCrory newly elected republicommunist guv'nor of NC shafted under his small govt umbrella ... unemployment benefits that he cut by 60% ... smartly he did not touch welfare or disability or SS or nothing like that bleeding the coffers dry.

Smart man, he knows his target republicommunist ... the rich who pay his campaign, and the ones on welfare/dole. The working class is to be shafted from all sides.

Cool.
Srinath.

As per the usual, you have completely misunderstood the conversation and missed the point. Were it not for Obamacare and rewarding anti-social behavior then those of us who legitimately have a need are cast aside. You apparantly don't know the difference between welfare and unemployment insurance and have no concept of tax rules. Your gaps in knowledge are far too great for me to teach you here.

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srinath

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #9 - 04/23/13 at 11:11:27

Dane Allen wrote on 04/23/13 at 10:22:22:

srinath wrote on 04/23/13 at 07:08:55:

I love it when people trying to get or already on SS or disability or welfare are anti welfare state ... I guess they want no one on the gubbamint dole ... except them ... oh yea classic republiucommunist attitude ... everyone needs to pay their 25% taxes ... except me, I want to be @ 5% ... cos I am "job creator"

Seriously on a larger scale too, the first and so far only group Pat McCrory newly elected republicommunist guv'nor of NC shafted under his small govt umbrella ... unemployment benefits that he cut by 60% ... smartly he did not touch welfare or disability or SS or nothing like that bleeding the coffers dry.

Smart man, he knows his target republicommunist ... the rich who pay his campaign, and the ones on welfare/dole. The working class is to be shafted from all sides.

Cool.
Srinath.

As per the usual, you have completely misunderstood the conversation and missed the point. Were it not for Obamacare and rewarding anti-social behavior then those of us who legitimately have a need are cast aside. You apparantly don't know the difference between welfare and unemployment insurance and have no concept of tax rules. Your gaps in knowledge are far too great for me to teach you here.

Oh yea the old ... cut your benefit and give it to me routine eh ...

Your need is legit, but everyone elses is not and Obamacare makes it so legit need is not met ... what garbage.

Yea more crap - its the old "take it from him and give it to me" that republicommunists everywhere embrace.

You dont need to explain nothing ... Its pretty obvious, he's posting about waiting for disability, while railing about disability and how its costing the govt expansion. So its not govt expansion when its for him. but it is when its for someone else.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Dane Allen

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #10 - 04/23/13 at 11:41:58

srinath wrote on 04/23/13 at 11:11:27:

Dane Allen wrote on 04/23/13 at 10:22:22:

srinath wrote on 04/23/13 at 07:08:55:

I love it when people trying to get or already on SS or disability or welfare are anti welfare state ... I guess they want no one on the gubbamint dole ... except them ... oh yea classic republiucommunist attitude ... everyone needs to pay their 25% taxes ... except me, I want to be @ 5% ... cos I am "job creator"

Seriously on a larger scale too, the first and so far only group Pat McCrory newly elected republicommunist guv'nor of NC shafted under his small govt umbrella ... unemployment benefits that he cut by 60% ... smartly he did not touch welfare or disability or SS or nothing like that bleeding the coffers dry.

Smart man, he knows his target republicommunist ... the rich who pay his campaign, and the ones on welfare/dole. The working class is to be shafted from all sides.

Cool.
Srinath.

As per the usual, you have completely misunderstood the conversation and missed the point. Were it not for Obamacare and rewarding anti-social behavior then those of us who legitimately have a need are cast aside. You apparantly don't know the difference between welfare and unemployment insurance and have no concept of tax rules. Your gaps in knowledge are far too great for me to teach you here.

Oh yea the old ... cut your benefit and give it to me routine eh ...

Your need is legit, but everyone elses is not and Obamacare makes it so legit need is not met ... what garbage.

Yea more crap - its the old "take it from him and give it to me" that republicommunists everywhere embrace.

You dont need to explain nothing ... Its pretty obvious, he's posting about waiting for disability, while railing about disability and how its costing the govt expansion. So its not govt expansion when its for him. but it is when its for someone else.

Cool.
Srinath.

You are soo far off in lala land that I have to admit I have no idea what you are talking about. What the hell is a Republicommunist? I know it's a ridiculous merger of two separate ideals but what do you think it is?

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Dane Allen

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #11 - 04/23/13 at 11:47:01

Quote:

Oh yea the old ... cut your benefit and give it to me routine eh ...

This is the liberal mantra and why you want to rob Romney for more than he has already paid.

Quote:

-- Fool Speak Deleted -- Obamacare makes it so legit need is not met ... what garbage.

Absolutely correct. It was all a lie from the start.

Quote:

Yea more crap - its the old "take it from him and give it to me" that republicommunists everywhere embrace.

Do you even understand what you are talking about? If by repulicommunist you mean liberal then yes, that has always been my experience with my liberals friends.

Quote:

You dont need to explain nothing ... Its pretty obvious, he's posting about waiting for disability, while railing about disability and how its costing the govt expansion. So its not govt expansion when its for him. but it is when its for someone else.

Ok, so you don't get it, that isn't anything to be ashamed of, these are pretty complex topics. I won't fault you for being short on bandwidth.

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srinath

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #12 - 04/23/13 at 12:24:46

Dane Allen wrote on 04/23/13 at 11:41:58:

You are soo far off in lala land that I have to admit I have no idea what you are talking about. What the hell is a Republicommunist? I know it's a ridiculous merger of two separate ideals but what do you think it is?

I am going to just explain this one more time, then all will be clear to you ... (NOT) ... but here it is anyway.

Communism was not characterised by high taxes stifling productivity.
I have posted that excerpt out of an economics textbook before but now I am too busy working to do it all over again.

Communism atleast in the USSR was characterised by high taxes for the factory working class, and the wealthy executives that ran the factories were rewarded with huge tax incentives and other perks.

Isn't that reminiscent of RMoney's 13% tax rate while the rest of the workers pay 20-25%. Now who is crying about having lower taxes ... RMoney and his cronies ... so they are the communists ... Republicommunists.

Easy ...

Cool.
Srinath.

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Midnightrider

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #13 - 04/23/13 at 13:29:10

This country is more interested in killing middle easterners than taking care of its own.There's a lot of our people who through no fault of their own are sick and disabled. I worked over 40 years before I became sick and had to apply for disability. I wont live long enough to get back what I paid in yet people acuse me (Romney)of milking the system. I've said this before, it bears repeating. The only difference between us and third world countries is we take care of our children and educate them, we have a strong middle class and we respect and take care of our elders. Now that's a dam joke, welcome to America, king of the 3rd world countries.

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Dane Allen

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Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong
Reply #14 - 04/23/13 at 17:16:55

Quote:

I am going to just explain this one more time, then all will be clear to you ... (NOT) ... but here it is anyway.

Ooo, I can hardly stand the anticipation

Quote:

Communism was not characterised by high taxes stifling productivity.
I have posted that excerpt out of an economics textbook before but now I am too busy working to do it all over again.

No, it was another of many examples of the failure of oppresive centralized planning stifling productivity.

Quote:

Communism atleast in the USSR was characterised by high taxes for the factory working class, and the wealthy executives that ran the factories were rewarded with huge tax incentives and other perks.

By wealthy executives I think you mean those who had political clout were rewarded with the stolen property of industry in exchange for their loyalty to the State. The rightful owner was most likely executed if they had not perished in the gulags first.

Quote:

Isn't that reminiscent of RMoney's 13% tax rate while the rest of the workers pay 20-25%. Now who is crying about having lower taxes ... RMoney and his cronies ... so they are the communists ... Republicommunists.

Oh, I get it, you are saying 2+2=orange. When the workers pay $3 million in taxes then I think he can complain. What I think you mean is you dislike the progressive tax system and would prefer a flat tax where everyone pays, say, 6%, for example on whatever they earn regardless of whether it is social security, inheritance, life insurance, wages, lotto, disability, unemployment, dividends, find-a-penny-pick-it-up, what ever. Some flat rate where everyone pays the same percentage regardless of income, no deductions or credits or anything.

Would you say that is pretty accurate?

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