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Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again! (Read 17975 times)
ThumperPaul
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #405 -
07/16/24 at 14:19:41
That’s awesome! What do you mostly attribute the lower temperature to?
Is this now with the 40w break-in oil? Did a the lower range oil pressure gauge provide a better reading? You got me kinda worried about oil pressure in these bikes (souped up or stock).
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Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #406 -
07/16/24 at 15:12:22
ThumperPaul wrote
on 07/16/24 at 14:19:41:
That’s awesome! What do you mostly attribute the lower temperature to?
Is this now with the 40w break-in oil? Did a the lower range oil pressure gauge provide a better reading? You got me kinda worried about oil pressure in these bikes (souped up or stock).
I don't know the cause of the reduced temperature - but DragBikeMike experienced a temperature reduction as well when he installed the first Wiseco Flat Top piston in his bike. He also reported a dramatic increase in mpg.
I am using the rest of the 30 weight oil - the 10W-40 break-in oil will arrive in a few days. With a proper pressure gauge the oil pressure is fine with the 30 weight. I may need the larger bleed jet when I go to the heavier weight oil.
The stock Savage may not have "great" oil supply as built - but it is certainly adequate. Youzguyz put 160,000 miles on his bike with the stock oil system.....the only thing that was worn beyond limits was the valve guides. Use good oil, don't idle the bike on the sidestand, don't lower your idle speed below 1,100 rpm - and you will be fine.
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Last Edit: 07/17/24 at 14:12:36 by Dave
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #407 -
07/16/24 at 15:31:58
Good to hear, Dave! Glad your pressure is good! Youzguyz bike is a great testament!
Sure sounds like the Wiseco Flat Top is the way to go based on your experience and DBMs. I would never make it through the measures and testing you guys go through! If I ever do something, I need a tried and true formula. Thanks for doing the hard work and sharing!
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #408 -
07/17/24 at 00:07:25
"I currently have the #102 bypass jet installed - I will put the #120 back in and see if I can get the pressures down a little bit."
With 50 weight oil at normal operating temp, you can expect about a 9 psi drop across the filter at 4000 rpm. So, if your gage in the filter cover read 20 the actual pressure at the cylinder head would be about 11. With 40 weight oil I expect it would be a couple of psi less (like 18 at the filter and 9 at the cylinder head).
I measure my oil pressure at the cylinder head. That's the only place on the engine where the pressure actually counts. It's the only portion of the engine that uses plain bearings (i.e. cam bearings). But I think you can assume that the system from one engine to another will behave about the same. Let's be bold and assume you actually have a drop of 7 psi across your oil filter (40 weight oil). If you can maintain 17 psi on your gage at 4000 rpm at normal operating temp, then you should have approximately 10 psi at the cylinder head. That should work pretty good.
Of course, the best way is to eliminate the guess work. That requires a gage installed at the cylinder head.
I think the 2 psi reduction in pressure due to the 40 weight vs the 50 weight is pretty close. I just dumped my Rotella (using it for break in) and replaced with 50 weight. Pressure bumped up right around 2 psi (from 10 psi to 12 psi at 4K).
Since you are not measuring pressure at the cylinder head (the most critical data point), I think it is safe to assume that at 4000 rpm your pump discharge pressure (measured at the filter housing) will be about 7 psi higher than the cylinder head. So, if you want 10 psi at the cylinder head adjust your bleed orifice to achieve 17 psi at the filter housing. That would be at 4000 rpm and oil at normal operating temp (200 F).
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #409 -
07/19/24 at 11:40:55
Y’all are really making me thinks that 50w oil is the way to go especially in Houston in the summer. 10psi at the head just sounds really low even if it is “adequate”.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #410 -
07/19/24 at 22:56:51
Paul, that "10 psi" you are talking about is with a set of high-speed drive gears. With stock oil pump drive gears, the oil pressure to the head is only about 5 or 6 psi at 4000 rpm. At idle it's "ZERO". Those values are with 50 weight oil. With 40 weight it's even less. Given the recent weather reports, I would say that Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 Synthetic would be an excellent option.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #411 -
07/20/24 at 03:40:50
Thanks Mike. Zero. That’s crazy. I knew y’all were talking about an upgraded system, but ZERO for stock!? No more idling on the side stand, period! Dang! How could Suzuki do this!?
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Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #412 -
07/23/24 at 04:20:47
I am chasing down a very small oil leak. On a 30 mile ride I will have 4 or 5 small drips on the top of the starter motor or and the metal cover plate just behind the starter. The top end is dry - it appears the oil is coming from the top of the clutch cover and getting blown down the bottom of the cylinder - then the wind catches it and blows it behind the cylinder.
In an effort to confirm it - I sprayed the top of the clutch cover with the cheapest can of spray foot powder I could find (evidently baby powder is not made in a spray).
NOTE: The stainless screws have stainless washers - I believe they may not always seal properly at the 3 locations with the sealing washers with the rubber on the inside.....so I am removing the stainless washers at those locations.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #413 -
07/23/24 at 04:24:07
I started the bike up and ran it for a minute while keeping the bike upright and keeping the idle speed up.....this is what happened. This is a new gasket with the factory applied sealant on both sides up top at the oil channel - when I installed it you could see the sealant squishing in the joint.
Now it is time to remove the cover and see if I can get this area sealed better. I will check to make sure the cover is flat and not warped. It appears this gasket doesn't like all the new oil pressure the modified gear provides.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #414 -
07/26/24 at 08:07:10
I am still chasing down the minor oil leak.
I took the clutch cover off again....and I removed the clutch lever and the oil window, and then scrubbed it clean.
I used my "cheap" die pen to mark the gasket surface.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #415 -
07/26/24 at 08:08:45
I then got my "flat plate" that is a piece of marble countertop that was cut out for a sink. (If you go to your local countertop supplier they will likely sell or give you one of these).
I used spray adhesive to mount 2 sheets of sandpaper.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #416 -
07/26/24 at 08:11:13
After a bit of scuffing the clutch cover around - I found a bit of a warp right where the leak is. I continued sanding until it was gone and all the die was removed.
I then reinstalled it with the Suzuki gasket with the steel interior, and I used a very thin wipe of Suzukibond on the sealing surface where the oil passage is.
I had to go out of town and it has been sitting for a couple of days - I will likely get a chance to fire it up and see if the leak has been solved.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #417 -
07/26/24 at 18:27:49
I'm lovin the approach you have taken on this oil leak. Could you possible post a picture of the foot powder so I can get the specifics. That stuff looks like it would be a great tool. You could even use it for spotting in valves. It would allow an almost non-existent Prussian blue transfer to show up and be visible. When I was working on steam turbines, I used to use PT developer in the same way. Do the spot, then hit it with a little toot of the developer and it would clearly show all the areas where the bluing transferred. I'd like to see if I can pick up a can of the same stuff at our local CVS or Walgreens.
Do you have any feel for how far off the clutch cover was. Did you try inserting a .001" feeler under the cover when you had it on your flat plate?
I've been wanting to see if I can refurbish one of these newer steel gaskets. I was thinkin I would wash it up good in mineral spirts, let it air dry for a day or two, and then coat it with Permatex Optimum Grey using my little paint-roller applicator. Let that side dry a day or two, and then turn it over and lay it on waxed paper. Then apply the sealant to the other side. I'm anxious to hear how yours turns out.
Observing your photo, it seems to me that you also have a fair amount of oil around the fill plug. IMO, it actually apprears to be a little more than in the pressurized areas. You might wanna change the o-ring. My personal experience with that particular o-ring is that it doesn't last.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #418 -
07/27/24 at 04:43:01
Very smart, Dave! What I want to know is how it went from no leaks before the piston swap to discovering warpage with a leak? Did the old gasket just do a sensation job of filling in the warped area of the mating surface?
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #419 -
07/30/24 at 09:37:46
I really don't know why the leak only showed up now. The gasket had been used many times - I likely had the cover off a dozen times over the years with several modifications/changes to the cam tensioner, a cam change, the the DR650 modified clutch, Sneezy clutch cam...and more recently the head/cylinder/piston swap followed by the oil pump drive gear changes. The cover may have gotten a bit tweaked when the original clutch cam broke - it did bang into the clutch cover and leave a few dents and scratches inside.
It appears the recent leveling of the cover and application of the Suzukibond has solved the oil weep. I rode up to the hardware store this yesterday and there is no evidence of oil on the 10 mile round trip. I did replace the oil filler cap O-ring as DragBikeMike suggested.
Here is the "cheapest" brand of powder spray I could find at my Walgreens. I did not need any medicine and was just looking for a spray baby powder - but Athletes Foot spray powder was the best I could do. It washed off easily when I was done - but it did need soap and a rag....rinsing alone did not do it.
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