Starlifter wrote on 12/05/12 at 20:15:30:


I'm flattered.
You take what you take from this book... from any book whether it be"Catcher in the Rye" or any other book.
Am I so far off base that I could potentially see our rights degrade to a door to door weapons search as described in the book? That was my only intention in referencing the book.

If McVeigh learned how to mix up fertilizer bombs from Sesame Street would you still denounce the book? (The book doesn't really describe the methods, just that it was done)


--Steve

srinath wrote on 11/28/12 at 11:50:49:


many groups that want to ban guns are, they do not discriminate. They need a total ban as a partial ban would not work within theory of what kills.  Didn't you hear about the kids diying from guns found in their own home?  

Starlifter wrote on 12/06/12 at 17:16:48:

Still in shock that I just agreed with everything you said...  

Who in the hell are all these groups that want to ban guns?? I'm as ultra liberal as they come and I would never give up my guns (too many right-wing lunatic fringe crazies out there).

who? well due to redistricting in Missouri, this guy is my Congressman now:
        Rep. William L. Clay (D-St. Louis, Mo.), said the Brady Bill is "the minimum step" that Congress should take to control handguns.  "We need much stricter gun control, and eventually we should bar the ownership of handguns except in a few cases," Clay said.

Perhaps one of our Canadian contributors can help enlighten us.  As we know, handguns are banned in Canada except for target shooting under very controlled conditions.

But my question really relates to public attitudes up there.  While Canada has no 2nd Amendment, per se, back 150 or so years ago, there was little difference between those in Canada and we in the U.S. when it came to public opinions about virtually anything.  We had a common heritage from British colonial days, common language, except for the small part of Canada that speaks French, and a common hertitage of self determination and expression.

But in the last 40 or so years, Canada is no longer much like the U.S.; philosophically or politically.  What happened up there to change the country so much and the attitudes of its people?

If it happened to our close neighbor, why can't the same happen here?  The 2nd amendment could be legally repealed, given public support to do so.

srinath wrote on 12/07/12 at 05:29:58:


30 years ago a fully automatic M16 was 250 dollars.
Now it's ~20k.
It's only going to become more expensive.


--Steve

Starlifter wrote on 12/06/12 at 17:16:48:


Senator Dianne Feinstein - the bane of my existence.
Then President Clinton passed the AW Sunset ban in 1994.
Obama's gun ban list:
http://www.republicmagazine.com/news/just-released-obamas-gun-ban-list.html
2009 too old? How about last August:
http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/08/white-house-confirms-obama-wants-to-ban-guns/

 In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no significant effect either on the crime rate or on personal security.  Nonetheless, it is a good idea . . . .  Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation.

             Charles Krauthammer (columnist), Disarm the Citizenry. But Not Yet, Washington Post, Apr. 5, 1996 (boldface added).

* * *

             We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest. . . .  [W]e'll have to start working again to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen the next law, and maybe again and again.  Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice.  Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. . . .  The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being produced and sold in this country.  The second problem is to get handguns registered.  The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition-except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors-totally illegal.

             Richard Harris, A Reporter at Large: Handguns,  New Yorker, July 26, 1976, at 53, 58 (quoting Pete Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc.) (boldface added, italics in original).

* * *

             Rep. William L. Clay (D-St. Louis, Mo.), said the Brady Bill is "the minimum step" that Congress should take to control handguns.  "We need much stricter gun control, and eventually we should bar the ownership of handguns except in a few cases," Clay said.

             Robert L. Koenig, NRA-Backed Measure May Derail Brady Bill, St. Louis Post Dispatch, May 8, 1993, at 1A (boldface added).

* * *

             [Peter] Jennings:  And the effect of the assault rifle ban in Stockton?  The price went up, gun stores sold out and police say that fewer than 20 were turned in.  Still, some people in Stockton argue you cannot measure the effect that way. They believe there's value in making a statement that the implements of violence are unacceptable in our culture.

             [Stockton, California] Mayor [Barbara] Fass:  I think you have to do it a step at a time and I think that is what the NRA is most concerned about, is that it will happen one very small step at a time, so that by the time people have "woken up" -- quote -- to what's happened, it's gone farther than what they feel the consensus of American citizens would be.  But it does have to go one step at a time and the beginning of the banning of semi-assault military weapons, that are military weapons, not "household" weapons, is the first step."

             ABC News Special, Peter Jennings Reporting: Guns, April 11, 1991, available on LEXIS, NEWS database, SCRIPT file (boldface added).  
http://www.gunscholar.org/gunban.htm

Former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, San Antonio Mayor Henry Cisneros and Baltimore Mayor Kurt Schmoke signed the Communitarian Network's The Case for Domestic Disarmament, which among other thing said:

             There is little sense in gun registration.  What we need to significantly enhance public safety is domestic disarmament . . . .  Domestic disarmament entails the removal of arms from private hands . . . .  Given the proper political support by the people who oppose the pro-gun lobby, legislation to remove the guns from private hands, acts like the legislation drafted by Senator John Chafee [to ban handguns], can be passed in short order.

  I shortly will introduce legislation banning the sale, manufacture or possession of handguns (with exceptions for law enforcement and licensed target clubs). . . .  It is time to act.  We cannot go on like this.  Ban them!

             Sen. John H. Chafee (R.-R.I.), In View of Handguns' Effects, There's Only One Answer: A Ban, Minneapolis Star Tribune, June 15, 1992, at 13A.  

 Maryland Attorney General J. Joseph Curran is proposing a wide-ranging package of laws that would make the state's gun control regulations among the strictest in the nation and says his ultimate goal is a ban on handguns.

             Daniel LeDuc, Tough Laws For Guns Proposed In Maryland; Attorney General Says Goal Is Ban, Wash. Post, Oct. 20, 1999, at A01.

I now think the only way to control handgun use in this country is to prohibit the guns.  And the only way to do that is to change the Constitution.

             Michael Gartner (then president of NBC News), Glut of Guns: What Can We Do About Them?, USA Today, Jan. 16, 1992, at 9A (boldface added).

The [American Academy of Pediatrics] believes handguns, deadly air guns and assault weapons should be banned.

             American Assocation of Pediatrics, Where We Stand, available at http://www.aap.org/advocacy/wwestand.htm (visited Jan. 21, 1999) (boldface added).

I believe you specifically asked what groups?
http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Issues_and_Causes/Firearms_Policy/Gu...
These groups.

I could do this all lunch break.


--Steve

Paraquat wrote on 11/28/12 at 09:30:15:


I dunno what's going on... compared to Europe (Mediterranean Europe most of all) you guys have a tremendous amount of crimiality.

Maybe it's because we eat wheat and you guys eat a lot of meat (eat your heart out, Gyrobob)

Maybe it's because we have more "organized crime" who make sure petty criminals keep a low profile - fewer police on the prowl...

Or maybe it's simply because we're different... but it startles the European TV viewer to hear of a shootout at the local mall, we don't even have roadside shootouts among mafia hitmen...