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Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated (Read 314 times)
dmj13
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Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
10/24/12 at 13:06:51
 
Okay, so I got a 2009 S40, JUST rolled over 4000 miles. Has a Jardine muffler, Uni foam filter, and the following carb adjustments from Lancer's jet set: 3 washers in place of white spacer, 55 pilot and 155 main. I KNOW I went way too far jetting it that much. I could smell it, and the air mix screw was turned all the way in. Improved but still present backfire on hard decel. Now also some poofing from the exhaust on shut off. Runs great with half choke, but I gotta keep the idle turned (what seems like) way up to keep it from dying on downshifts when I'm not giving a little throttle to even it out. So I know I got that all jacked up, and I'm open to suggestions. Pretty much resigned to swapping things out unitl I find the right mix. Oh, and still trying to plug the leaks from the header/muffler connection. Argh.
   THIS IS THE BIG PROBLEM: Met up with two buddies to go riding in Hill Country today. Looking forward to this ride all week. Get twenty miles in, cruising a steady 70-80, suddenly feel like something "went". I honestly thought a hose had come off the carb or burst or something- very hard to explain. But I'm suddenly out of gear. Engine running, throttle works, but gas no go. Downshifted and upshifted, no joy, eventually coasted to the side. Two buddies with fuel injected bikes stand and stare at it with me for a few minutes (not very helpful). No leaks, no bust hoses, no fuel pouring out. Start it up (did not want to start) get on the road, everything is good then 15 minutes and Bam. All over again. I do this again, then limp home with no issues at under 50mph.
W. T. F?
  I have theorized this has something to do with heat???? Maybe I'm running hot and rich, oil heats up, something in the tranny/clutch screws up. Bike sits for a minute, cools down, works fine until I'm running fast and hot again then repeats? I'm fairly comfortable turning wrenches. This bike is not that complicated, but I don't know too much about the tranny and clutch. Anyone got any great ideas? Just tell me how I jacked this bike up so I can fix it and ride before it gets cold!
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2009 S40: Lancer Jet Kit with 55 pilot, 152.5 main, 1 washers/Uni foam filter/ Jardine exhaust
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #1 - 10/24/12 at 13:18:17
 
OK...you have me confused.  Did the engine stop running.....or did the transmission stop working?
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dmj13
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #2 - 10/24/12 at 13:20:30
 
Engine kept running, but felt like I had the clutch pulled in. Out of gear. Would not go into gear from 5th all the way down to first.
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2009 S40: Lancer Jet Kit with 55 pilot, 152.5 main, 1 washers/Uni foam filter/ Jardine exhaust
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #3 - 10/24/12 at 13:27:02
 
They only thing I believe could have affected all the gears is the clutch.  Do you have proper free play in the cable to allow the clutch to be fully engaged?  You should be able to move the clutch lever just a bit before it tightens up the cable - you need a small amount of slack.
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dmj13
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #4 - 10/24/12 at 13:30:43
 
Yep, checked the clutch cable. All looks good. I just don't know what the hell is going on... I feel like it is realted to my recent rejetting, just because of timing, but I'm stretching for a connection. The bike only has 4000 miles on it, so I've got a short list of things that could have worn out already.... Fluids all done at 2300 by previous owner.
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2009 S40: Lancer Jet Kit with 55 pilot, 152.5 main, 1 washers/Uni foam filter/ Jardine exhaust
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #5 - 10/24/12 at 13:48:58
 
If I read this right (Engine running, throttle works, but no go) you're clutch is slipping when hot.

Check the clutch lever on the tranny next to the oil fill window.
There are 2 lines on the case that it should be in between.
Is it towards the bottom?

I think you need to take off the clutch cover and swap out the clutch rod for a shorter one.  I'm thinking that the rod is getting hot and growing enough to bottom out on the cover.  They make 3 lengths, each 1mm different in length.  Take the cover off and measure how much the pin sticks out.  

If I remember correctly should be 12.5mm  13mm will bottom out on the cover.
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #6 - 10/24/12 at 14:02:20
 
Start by making sure the exhaust is air tight to eliminate that issue.
Replace the pilot and main jets with the 52.5 & 152.5 jets.
Set the pilot air screw @ 2.5 turns out.
Double check the float level to eliminate that as a possible issue.
Install new plug.

Test ride and report results.
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #7 - 10/24/12 at 14:16:52
 
I'm thinking verslagen1 is likely right about the clutch rod but I'll put in my 2 cents worth anyhow. You said you were riding in the hills at a steady 70-80 for a while. Is this the first time you've ridden the bike that hard for this long ? If so, and the clutch rod turns out to be not the issue, I'd be looking at the oil. Maybe when the PO changed it he put in some energy conserving car stuff. The additives they put in that oil don't work well with wet clutches. You're gonna have to change it anyway after you take the clutch cover off. Make sure you replace it with something reccomended for motorcycle engines.
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #8 - 10/24/12 at 14:51:06
 
versalgen1: I haven't checked it yet, but your theory syncs with my common sense answer- heat is the culprit. If rod is at the margin, do I order just the next size down? Or go all the way to the shortest length? And will there be a corresponding clutch cable adjustment?

Lancer: Thanks much. I know what I'm doing the next couple of days. I guess "If it's worth doing it's worth over doing" may not apply when jetting carbs...

oldNslow: Not my first time running the bike like that, but first time in this location (San Antonio). Previously in Birmingham, Al. Not sure of sea level changes, but hot and humid is hot and humid. Although today was a pretty nice day. Which is why I'm so upset to lose it to mechanical failure!!! Angry

  Thanks all, at least I have a direction to head in. I appreciate the help and will report back when I fix it or break it some more.
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2009 S40: Lancer Jet Kit with 55 pilot, 152.5 main, 1 washers/Uni foam filter/ Jardine exhaust
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #9 - 10/24/12 at 15:17:08
 
dmj13 wrote on 10/24/12 at 14:51:06:
versalgen1: I haven't checked it yet, but your theory syncs with my common sense answer- heat is the culprit. If rod is at the margin, do I order just the next size down? Or go all the way to the shortest length? And will there be a corresponding clutch cable adjustment?

There are 3 lengths, can't tell you which one you got, they're cheap, so buy all 3 and be ready.

If you want a different option, (I'm trying it, but haven't had it apart yet to confirm) full hard tool pins may work, Ų1/4" x 1.5" ground to the correct length, don't over heat.  I know drill rod don't work, they just wear out.  Had problems with the drill rod in less than 1k miles.  Had the tool pin in over 5k miles so I think it's ok, still need to inspect.
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #10 - 10/24/12 at 16:14:31
 

versalgen1: I haven't checked it yet, but your theory syncs with my common sense answer- heat is the culprit. If rod is at the margin, do I order just the next size down? Or go all the way to the shortest length? And will there be a corresponding clutch cable adjustment?




Verslagen is leading you in the right direction -- follow his instructions and POST BACK WHEN YOU COMPLETE WHAT HE TELLS YOU TO DO.

Versy, when you get his clutch rod right find out what oil he is using -- he should not have "heat related" anything using the modern synthetic recommended oils.   And yet just this past week we see a guy cooking a piston due to varnished up stuck rings and a clutch rod misbehaving due to "heat" while running at full speed ?????
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #11 - 10/24/12 at 16:37:38
 
If the clutch lever has no slack once everything gets warmed up,, you need to put more slack in the cable
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #12 - 10/25/12 at 03:56:02
 
My opinion, go for the things that are easy and don't open up the engine first.

What JOG said about the cable.  Check it when the engine is hot.

What OldNSlow said about the oil.  Maybe the wrong stuff was put in there, maybe it has broken down from the heat.  Changing it out with the "right stuff"  (Does he need to do anything to clean the clutch plates?  Can he do it chemically without opening up?)

Then call me, and let's go ride them hills!!!  (I ride 'em every weekend, I know all the roads worth riding.  I live north central SA (1604/Buverde Rd))   Cheesy
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #13 - 10/25/12 at 05:33:25
 
  Yeah, I slept on it and agree with you, youzguyz. I'm going to start by rejetting the carb correctly (hopefully today or tomorrow) and doing an oil change. The clutch lever is on the low end, but I'm not experienced enough with it to know what "on the edge" looks like. I will post a pic in a bit and maybe someone can tell me different.
  Once I get the carb/exhaust sorted and change the oil, my plan is to go for a ride and see if I can recreate the problem. If it doesn't come back I'll assume it was a heat issue from running too rich. If it comes back... well, I limped home once, right?
   Anyone got an opinion on whether I risk doing any major damage trying that? With potentially over heating parts like that I'm a little concerned about metal fatigue...? Or am I being paranoid?

justin_o_guy: all cables are good. Cables and hoses were my first checks when it happened the first time. I was REALLY disappointed they were not the issue. Woulda been easy, then.
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2009 S40: Lancer Jet Kit with 55 pilot, 152.5 main, 1 washers/Uni foam filter/ Jardine exhaust
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dmj13
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Re: Transmission Gremlins- seriously frustrated
Reply #14 - 10/25/12 at 05:35:17
 
Oh, and youzguyz, I'm down in Southtown. This place is hopping on First Fridays if you haven't seen it!
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2009 S40: Lancer Jet Kit with 55 pilot, 152.5 main, 1 washers/Uni foam filter/ Jardine exhaust
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