SuzukiSavage.com - RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #255 - 04/12/13 at 06:37:34

Booster blend table: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1345080430

Folks were stumbling through this so much that Boule put together a booster table to make life easy.

THIS TABLE IS PREDICATED ON BOOSTING AN ENTIRE GALLON JUG as soon as you open it up. Dealing with the entire gallon made the measurement task much easier as it was done with whole ounce jigger cups for the whole gallon boosted instead of quarter and half ounces per oil change.

Note also the table extends way past what you would consider reasonable amounts. Four ounces per gallon is a logical maximum amount to use as beyond that the benefit of "more" gets to be more theoretical instead of proved/practical.

But the table allows you to match any known product out there, no matter how excessive.

Also note this table applies to Rotella products as a starting point -- Rotella is chosen for being the least costly but still the highest ZDDP starting oil we could find to begin boosting from. It is also the best known, least cost, best performing oil that we know about here on the list.

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« Last Edit: 04/12/13 at 08:37:22 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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DavidOfMA

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #256 - 04/12/13 at 07:24:02

Thanks for the table, although now I'm more confused. The table says I'd need 1.7oz of Redline to get to 1520, while the calculations above, based on the Redline site, say I'd need 1oz. I downloaded the spreadsheet and tried to follow the logic, but there are constants in there that I don't understand in the formula he uses:

=((20500*D18*0.97+1251*119.5)/(119.5+D18*0.97))

Anyone able to shed some light on the logic of this formula? The spreadsheet is an Open Office spreadsheet; need to rename it from ZIP to ODS to read it.

Edit: Never mind. I see from the Redline site that adding 16oz of Redline to 4 quarts of oil increases zinc by 2760 ppm. So adding one oz increases it 172.5ppm, not 320, though I'm still not sure why.

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gdrseeker

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #257 - 04/12/13 at 08:06:53

Now I am confused doesn't this indicate I should add the listed amount to one gallon T6. I recently added 3 oz Redline to One Gallon of T6 in order to get 1700 ppm.........Is that not correct math according to this chart?

Boule’tard wrote on 08/15/12 at 18:27:10:

As promised, here are the exact amounts of booster needed, in a gallon of Rotella T6 synthetic or to a gallon of Rotella dino Triple Protection, to reach a desired concentration of Zinc in the form of ZDDP. All the way from "adequate" (add nothing and you have 1250ppm) to a relatively HUGE 2500ppm Cheesy

Anyway.. I will attach the spreadsheet to this post (open office format, oops the forum will not let me attach a file with extension ods. Change the extension from zip to ods or xls. It is not really a zip file) so anyone can check my math or expand it out to Mountain Dew "extreme" zinc concentrations beyond 2500ppm.

I have carefully considered the specific gravities of Rotella and each additive when calculating the zinc concentration. Sources for this as well as Zn contents are MSDSs, product web sites, and lab VOAs.

So.. in easy-to-mix 1/8 ounce jigger increments, here it is. Remember, these amounts go in one gallon of Rotella T6:

Fl.Oz. ppm for Redline ppm if adding ZDDPlus or Eastwood ZDDP Booster

0.125 1271 1320
0.250 1290 1389
0.375 1309 1458
0.500 1329 1526
0.625 1348 1595
0.750 1367 1663
0.875 1387 1731
1.000 1406 1799
1.125 1425 1867
1.250 1444 1935
1.375 1463 2003
1.500 1483 2070
1.625 1502 2138
1.750 1521 2205
1.875 1540 2272
2.000 1559 2339
2.125 1577 2406
2.250 1596 2472
2.375 1615 2539
2.500 1634
2.625 1653
2.750 1671
2.875 1690
3.000 1709
3.125 1727
3.250 1746
3.375 1764
3.500 1783
3.625 1801
3.750 1820
3.875 1838
4.000 1856
4.125 1875
4.250 1893
4.375 1911
4.500 1929
4.625 1947
4.750 1966
4.875 1984
5.000 2002
5.125 2020
5.250 2038
5.375 2056
5.500 2074
5.625 2092
5.750 2109
5.875 2127
6.000 2145
6.125 2163
6.250 2180
6.375 2198
6.500 2216
6.625 2233
6.750 2251
6.875 2268
7.000 2286
7.125 2303
7.250 2321
7.375 2338
7.500 2356
7.625 2373
7.750 2390
7.875 2408
8.000 2425
8.125 2442
8.250 2459
8.375 2476
8.500 2493

This is the chart I was going by. As far as I can tell from all the discussion and the description of the formula used it looks correct.

I am going to continue to put 3oz of redline into my fresh one gallon jugs of Rotella T Oil.

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #258 - 04/12/13 at 08:35:03

Newbies ALWAYS live in a constant state of confusion until they learn how to look for stuff, how to think logically about it some and then to ask questions whenever they can't figure it out.

The one thing newbies do that gets them popped on the hand is to try to tell other newer newbies some strange nonsense based on what they already know they don't fully understand.

Older members get popped for letting new newbies cruise off into a disaster without telling them they are cruising for a bruising.

(although I fully sympathise that you done told them ignorant suckers x times already and they refuse to even read the tech thread you showed them x times which explains it all pretty clearly)

Now, if you read the tech thread and can't make sense of it, then it needs to be clarified or rewritten. Most of our tech threads are pretty clear because they HAVE been rewritten once or twice already.

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #259 - 06/05/13 at 08:42:09

I have a 2007 s40 boulevard and I mostly commute on the bike 60 miles a day at around 50-60 mph and am coming into a hot GA summer. I've put about 3k miles on the bike so far and am about to change out the oil/filter. Do I need to worry about supplementing my oil with this Redline additive and use Rotella T6?

I used regular Suzuki 4 stroke oil bought from a dealership for the first change and it's running well, couldn't complain. I haven't done any work on the bike yet but intend on raising the seat and raptor petcock soon. I tried to go through the 18 pages of posts on oil recommendations and just kept feeling more lost. Any straightforward answer about what oil to use is appreciated.

P.s. the dealership didn't sell me the replacement gasket for the oil filter when they sold me a new filter. Any ideas on where to get the gasket alone?

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #260 - 06/05/13 at 09:07:04

Seanmnnell wrote on 06/05/13 at 08:42:09:

P.s. the dealership didn't sell me the replacement gasket for the oil filter when they sold me a new filter. Any ideas on where to get the gasket alone?

The seal on the oil filter cover is an o-ring, and there's also one between the filter and case. I have ideas you don't need to replace them unless of course they are missing or damaged. They are available on-line if your local stealership can't figure out which one they are.

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Dave

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #261 - 06/05/13 at 09:19:13

For me.....I have converted to the Rotella T reasoning. You can run it right out of the jug and probablby be just fine. At least you will be better off than buying something you aren't sure of.

I have also joined the worriers and I add 1 oz of Redline ZDDP per gallon of oil to bring the level up to around 1,400 ppm.

I'll let you know in about 10 years of extensive testing how it ends up working. (I hope)

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« Last Edit: 06/05/13 at 10:23:07 by Dave »

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Seanmnnell YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 19	Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS Reply #262 - 06/05/13 at 10:21:46 Thanks to you both
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Seanmnnell YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 19	Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS Reply #263 - 06/05/13 at 10:29:14 I'm gonna go ahead and try 1.5 ounces of Redline to get it up to around 1500 ppm since i'm in 90+ degree environment going 50+ mph most of the time and will start on the low side with the additive since it seems to get close to causing trouble when you get over 1800 ppm.
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TiMec

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #264 - 06/14/13 at 12:36:06

During some research on the web, I found some useful information on this topic.

If you look for oil that are rated "API SG", the levels of ZDDP are around 1200ppm, as we all want for our Savages.

Most brands will say that this oil is for old engines.

If you look at most oil you'll find that that they are rated API SJ or SM, this means that the oil is prepared for new style engines.

Hope this helps, specially because if you don't live in the US, it's not easy to find some brands of oils posted in this topic.

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #265 - 06/16/13 at 14:32:47

Quote:

oil that are rated "API SG", the levels of ZDDP are around 1200ppm

Cheers, TiMec

Oils for Savages not in the US deserve a special thread, I'd say. Some of the guys here don't appreciate when we try to discuss alternatives to the canonical Rotella + ZDDP booster they try so hard to establish as THE standard - in this RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS thread.
The oil I am using in my bike is a Mobil 20W-50 jaso MA and api SG. I didn't have this information about the ZDDP content in SG oils being around 1200ppm, so I welcome your post. Would you mind sharing the source of this info w/ us?

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #266 - 06/16/13 at 16:09:31

Hi Roberto1444,

Well probably you're right about the thread on non US bikes Wink

, I'll leave that to the admin to decide.

Well in your weather a 20W50 oil would do great, I'm using a 10W40 from Ipone called Ipone 10.4 with Jaso MA, API SG. It does get cold around here and usually I ride all year long, so cold starts are quite often.

Back to what you asked, I first found a wikipedia article on that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil), if you read through it you'll find a section on API rating, you'll find a example of SG oil.

But I do also know that Wikipedia is not a source of 100% accurate information, so I went on searching and found a couple more things on the topic, but what really made up my mind was a pdf file I found from Zplus (http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief14%20-%20ZDDP%20and%20Pre-WWII%20Engines.pdf), wish is on of those ZDDP additives, that has a table with the exact information I was looking for, it's sort of a history of ZDDP and somewhat commercial, but I was happy with the finding.

I found it much easier to find API SG rated oils that having to worry about ZDDP additives...

Hope this bit of info helps.

PS- here's a MOBIL table containing ZDDP levels is some of their oil

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #267 - 06/18/13 at 07:45:44

Hi TiMec

Well, oil companies are not very transparent when it comes to their products' formulae, as if such information couldn't be critical for consumers, as if motor oil is some sort of coca-cola. I've tried to extract info on the ZDDP content of their motorcycle oil from Mobil and a couple of other brands here, to no avail.

The info you've linked from Mobil doesn't show Super Moto 4T, my Savage's motor oil.

And man, do you really find it safe to infer from that table on ZDDPLUS website which says that SG oils will not exceed 1200ppm of phosphorus that such oils actually have that proportion of P in their formulae - considering it doesn't say what the minimum must be? I'm sorry but what that table says to me is that as long as the motor oil's P proportion doesn't exceed 1200ppm it may be rated as API SG, even if no trace of P is to be found.

But I'll be glad if you show I'm wrong, because... diabos, I don't know how much ZDDP my Mobil has, so it's risky to mix some additive!

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Roberto1444 YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 27 Brazil Gender:	Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS Reply #268 - 06/18/13 at 18:16:28 Oops, forgot to thank you, TiMec, for your kind response. Cheers, _ R
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TG

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #269 - 06/25/13 at 17:47:48

I have searched before I am posting this question about oil.....I promise.

I already purchased some oil before reading about Rotella. I just want to see if what I have is bad enough to return since I haven't opened it yet. I also researched online adn couldn't find significant enough info about this product. I paid $3.98 per quart at Walmart.

Here is the link to see exactly what I bought:

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/motorcycle-atv-...

Zinc/Phosphorus, wt.% 0.112/0.103 0.112/0.103

Should I return this product or use it until I am out? I am picking up some redline today. Should I mix a little of that in? And how much? Thanks for any help!

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« Last Edit: 07/01/13 at 13:26:49 by TG »

2011, Emgo turn out, idle screw, white spacer, cone air filter, 150 main jet (Thanks Lancer!), seat lift, sissy bar, raptor petcock and fuel filter.

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