SuzukiSavage.com - First ever TEV war -- put your armour on

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12671
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
07/13/12 at 12:40:26

For your reading enjoyment here is TEV thread #1 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1268545171

And here is TEV thread #2 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1318209614

I've been going through Tech and I find Three (3) different TEV threads both based off something said in another brand of bike's tech section as being "great" to fix a problem with their brand of bike. The two methods are ass backwards to each other, of course, and seem to address different problems on those bikes.

Upon review of all the info written in response to our guys trying TEV fiddles on a Savage I find totally mixed results and reports (Arteacher) of $70+ dollars worth of repair parts needed to back his TEV modifications back to stock to get his TEV issues to stop.

First, NOTHING GOES INTO TECH SECTION UNTIL IT IS PROVEN OUT TO WORK 100% ON OUR SAVAGE as a reliable, replicable method.

TEV fiddling is definitely not there.

Lots of stuff gets experimented with, discussed, sometimes even warred over before getting jelled well enough to go into TECH SECTION. This takes place in RSD before the final product gets written up succinctly and put into TECH SECTION.

So, to start the war off in a good normal discussion war fashion, I say TEV fiddling is just that, fiddling with something that will change how your bike runs somewhat, and in a relatively unpredictable manner at that.

Somebody prove me wrong by making a concise statement of how doing exactly this will always result in the bike doing exactly that, even on a bone stock bike.

(much of the issues reported seem to spring from interactions between various performance mods and the "TEV fiddle of the moment").

Lastly, the effects of the TEV fiddle of the moment seem to only be temporary (especially the spring cutting).

Back to top

« Last Edit: 07/14/12 at 19:24:50 by Oldfeller--FSO »

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28651 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on Reply #1 - 07/13/12 at 12:50:18 Wooble wooble.. , pop,. blat,. blat blat,.. whomph!... Why would anyone want to tamper with perfection?... ...
Back to top	Ludicrous Speed !... ... ... IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12671
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
Reply #2 - 07/13/12 at 12:52:33

Serowbot wrote on 07/13/12 at 12:50:18:

Wooble wooble.. , pop,. blat,. blat blat,.. whomph!...

Why would anyone want to tamper with perfection?... Huh

...

Many newbies do everything they read in Tech, all at the same time of course. Wink

If you think it stops the effects of muffler/filter/jetting blap bloops, do tell us exactly how to do it.

Back to top

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

Boule’tard

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Master of the
Obvious

Posts: 1620
Austin TX
Gender: male

Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
Reply #3 - 07/13/12 at 12:53:55

Oh MAN, so many confounding variables..... the needle height/white spacer, the pilot jet, the fuel screw position, the temperature and humidity, the shifting and throttling style, the airbox and exhaust system, the length of that little spring.. hahahah.

Yes, this has ALL the irrational makin's of an ~~oil~~ ~~petcock~~ TEV war! Game on! Cheesy

That said, I do like the idea of a TEV, or Air-Cut Valve, or whatever you call them. While I was debating which carb to put on my DR650, I chose the Keihin FCR39 over the Mikuni TM40 mainly because of the TEV. After some fiddling, pops are minor and few. Cool

Back to top

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. - P.C. Hodgell

IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12671 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on Reply #4 - 07/13/12 at 13:03:49 TEV performs a useful function. It is a good thing as done by the mgf. However, folks here are trying to use it to magically fix issues left over from their unbalanced mods with spotty (2 out of 4) success and the effects seem to change (decline) over time.
Back to top	« Last Edit: 07/13/12 at 17:18:53 by Oldfeller--FSO » Former Savage Owner IP Logged

Boule’tard

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Master of the
Obvious

Posts: 1620
Austin TX
Gender: male

Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
Reply #5 - 07/13/12 at 14:47:38

So after I got the FCR installed, I am happy about the lack of popping. Then some guy pipes up with "well, I bet you wouldn't even notice it if that valve quit working. It pops either way." I didn't say anything but I was thinking GEE, then why do the engineers build them into the carbs in the first place?"

I want to tune my bike for the best running, without any compromise of the low speed mixture just to minimize the pops. I figure the guys running TEVless carbs get them going well enough and the popping is acceptable. Then they say Meh, ya don't need it! Cheesy

True, you don't need it, but it is nice.

Also, the adage "popping means it's lean!" isn't always true. When I was running a VM40 (which has no TEV) on a Savage, I was able to minimize popping by turning the air screw way out.. leaning the mixture. Apparently a too-rich condition was causing the muffler to load up and BAM!! About like a handgun. Huh

Back to top

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. - P.C. Hodgell

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28884
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
Reply #6 - 07/13/12 at 15:32:22

Serowbot wrote on 07/13/12 at 12:50:18:

Wooble wooble.. , pop,. blat,. blat blat,.. whomph!...

Why would anyone want to tamper with perfection?... Huh

...

++++++1!!!!!!

Cool

This is one of those parts in which the mfr is plauged by mfr tolerances. Which is why trimming or adding may work.

Anyone contemplating any mod to the carb that hasn't cleaned it thouroghly, is outta their freaking mind. Next comes all of the known adjustments, bolt tightening and checks to verify proper operation.

If at this point, venturing into the unknown to fix an issue (no matter what it be) try a mod that's reversible 1st and singlely. Most newbs skip this point... ah so&so's got it set this way, he must know what he's doing. never mind so&so's bike is completely different.

But just one point OF... if we remove every tech thread that we haven't done, or was done by a known savage wrench head, how many would there be left?

Admittally, TEV valve operation is out there in the black box world.
I betcha all of the guys mod'ing their spring don't understand that shortening actually makes it stiffer, just takes a little preload off.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12671
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
Reply #7 - 07/13/12 at 17:03:58

The techs are still there, but quite frankly unless somebody can write some sort of "do it in this order" logical procedure that turns it into a logical progression for fixing the whapple blaps then it is just telling the newbies to go fiddle with it.

Just because somebody read something neat on another bike's forums about a completely different motorcycle is no reason for it to show up in our Tech Section working at less than a 50% reproducible level.

So far you got "trim the spring X coils to make the whapple blaps get better" which only works 50% of the time (and one of the 50% reverted back later).

And you got "add a washer to keep your bike from dying at stop lights". uh, mebbe you got something else going wrong there?

So yeah, this is THE FIRST TEV WAR CRUSADE TO SAVE THE TEV TECH POSTS FROM EXTINCTION.

Does anyone get the impression the guys posting in these threads know exactly what they did to get those excessive whapple blaps and the "die off at the lights" and they could undo or moderate their earlier actions rather than open up a whole new can of TEV worms that has no developed rules?

(and seems to act differently with each set of circumstances)?

===============

It still gets back to our Tech Section being for proven out, detailed procedure with pictures, completely trustworthy how to stuff.

Black box experimental stuff belongs (correctly labeled of course) in Rubber Side Down. TEV falls into this category, unless somebody can write a logical procedure to follow, it is just fiddling with it ....

So, if I were a green newbie and I looked in the Tech Index and found listed threads on how to clip spring in my TEV (or add a washer, or whatever) I would think it was completely cool to do that and it would work reliably.

I mean SuzukiSavage.com has it listed in their Tech Section so it is got to be good to do, right?

TEV = Transient Enrichment Valve for those who can't be bothered to read the source threads to see what the fuss is about.

Back to top

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

heroicseven Full Member Offline oops, I broke it. Posts: 245 San Diego Gender:	Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on Reply #8 - 07/13/12 at 17:28:08 What in the H-E- double hockey sticks is TEV?
Back to top	00' raptor - supertrapp - 52.5 - 155 - half spacer - versaved IP Logged

Cavi Mike Serious Thumper Offline Thumper n00b Posts: 1005 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on Reply #9 - 07/13/12 at 17:40:15 I don't know what it is either but I'm sure not wasting my time filling my head with rubbish from two contradictory and clearly inconclusive studies.
Back to top	IP Logged

arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on Reply #10 - 07/14/12 at 05:34:16 All I know is I wish I'd never touched the dam thing.
Back to top	white '07, Raask exh, Corbin seat, slipstreamer shie, Raptor, Routy's fwd controls, Baron tach, Frisco bars, Isogrips, Headlight and taillight modulators, Dial-a- jet, AME 9 deg chop kit, K&N air flt IP Logged

Routy

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2280
Winston Oregon
Gender: male

Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
Reply #11 - 07/14/12 at 06:52:27

This thread was due a long time ago !
Seems strange tho,...I have consistently preached against hacking a carb unless you have a specificlly good reason to do it, and not just because of what you had read somewhere here or anywhere else, and I got hammered on for doing so.

The day that spring cutting thread went up I couldn't believe it !

Back to top

Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)

IP Logged

thumperclone Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline PGR rider riding with respect Posts: 6057 Grand Junction Colorado Gender:	Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on Reply #12 - 07/14/12 at 07:40:06 heroicseven wrote on 07/13/12 at 17:28:08: What in the H-E- double hockey sticks is TEV? transient enrichment valve
Back to top	standing for those who stood for US IP Logged

bill67

Serious Thumper

Offline

old tired

Posts: 8517
genoa city wisconsin
Gender: male

Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on
Reply #13 - 07/14/12 at 11:31:30

Routy wrote on 07/14/12 at 06:52:27:

This thread was due a long time ago !
Seems strange tho,...I have consistently preached against hacking a carb unless you have a specificlly good reason to do it, and not just because of what you had read somewhere here or anywhere else, and I got hammered on for doing so.

The day that spring cutting thread went up I couldn't believe it !

+1

Back to top

william h krumpen

IP Logged

Charon Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1811 Harvard, NE Gender:	Re: First ever TEV war -- put your armour on Reply #14 - 07/14/12 at 11:38:55 The old joke: "Carburetor" is French for "Don't mess with it." Perhaps it isn't a joke.
Back to top	Eschew obfuscation. IP Logged