SuzukiSavage.com - Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!

hooth4

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2

Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
07/13/12 at 07:49:42

Hello Forum Members. I'm writing to you all in despair. I bought a 1998 savage last fall and think I was sold a lemon. It had the well known oil leak from the well plug which I replaced and seemed to have fixed. But riding around this spring/summer I noticed the bike was getting HOT. Burn your leg hairs hot. I put an infrared temp gun on it after riding 20 min (in the city...stoplights) in about 80F weather and the cylinder was 330F. This is way too hot. I've brought it in to the shop twice and the only change I've noticed is I'm about $400 poorer. I'm pretty handy with a wrench and I'm willing to work on it but I live in NYC and don't have a garage so it needs to be work I can do in a day and put back together. Anyone have some ideas of what I can check (spark plug....etc). Better yet anyone live in the area a willing to take a look at it? I'd pay you for you time and would of course help out

I just don't trust the mechanics in this city, they won't give you the time of day.

Some other symptoms which may or may not be related. Exhaust pipe is VERY blue/purple right at the cylinder and seems to be getting worse. It backfires a bit...used to be worse but they cleaned the carb and adjusted the mixture at the shop and seems to have helped a little.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Dave

Back to top

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder! Reply #1 - 07/13/12 at 08:01:45 What are the jets in it? Is it a stock muffler? How does it run when cold? Must have the choke pulled? Even in summer?
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

spacepirates

Serious Thumper

Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #2 - 07/13/12 at 08:09:44

Exhaust pipe blueing is due to too-lean jetting. Though, any contaminants (oil/dirt) on a pipe will cause it to blue over time.

I'm going to put myself in the line of fire here: what oil do you have in it? Not trying to take sides or attack people's oil, but a lot of us like Rotella T6 synthetic. Other oils will work well too, just seems like Rotella T6 is kind of a go-to standard 'round these parts. known good oil.

Our bikes are pretty darn simple. If it is overheating there isn't much that can be causing it; either too lean jetting or too much friction in the cylinder (i.e. not enough oil).

You want some <30 minute tasks to give us a better idea? Pull the spark plug and tell us the color. Ideally you want a chocolate brown to light tan. Bone white is lean and black is rich. The other task is smell the oil. If the oil smells burnt, replace it. Hell, if it has been more than a few thousand miles, change the oil anyways (and filter!). check if the filter has any metal bits in it.

hm... other thoughts are that you shouldn't let an air-cooled bike idle without air flow for more than a few minutes. let's say 8 minutes. During those 8 minutes, your idle should be around 1000rpm. less, and not enough oil gets to the cam and you'll get the joy of opening up the head and replacing that sucker.

Back to top

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

IP Logged

hooth4

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #3 - 07/13/12 at 08:27:06

The shop replaced my oil a month ago and I haven't really ridden it much since due to the overheat issue. I don't know what they put in. I'll swap the oil out. I'll put in a good synthetic.

Everything looks stock to me. The previously mentioned oil leak cause a lot of corrosion on the bottom side of the exhaust pipe but no holes, just rust. Runs great cold but I usually put the choke when starting as it usually doesn't turn over right away....I sometimes I need to put the petccock in prime to start.

Only idle time is at stoplights...about 2 min max.

I didn't understand about the jets

Back to top

IP Logged

thumperclone Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline PGR rider riding with respect Posts: 6056 Grand Junction Colorado Gender:	Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder! Reply #4 - 07/13/12 at 10:08:29 main jet is the last 1/4 turn of the throttle to wot prime to start? may have a vacume leak and not getting enuf fuel
Back to top	standing for those who stood for US IP Logged

Spamy

Full Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 224

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #5 - 07/13/12 at 10:22:59

Im not so sure that is a crazy hot temperature for an air cooled motor. Motors get hot. Pipes melt boots and stuff. Being this is air cooled its prone to getting hot even more.

Ill try to check my brothers engine and see what temps he is getting (mines in pieces right now).

But im thinking 330 deg F isnt to far out of the ballpark of normal. In water cooled street bikes its normal for the water alone to be hitting 220 deg. Some of the electric fans dont even come on till 210 or so. T

Back to top

IP Logged

SuperSavage

Senior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 341

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #6 - 07/13/12 at 11:22:50

All stock savages header pipes blue. Mine was blue/gold. You need to install a Dyna muffler mod and maybe re-jet. That combined with some Rotella should do the trick.

I went with a Harley Dyna muffler and rejetted and no more blue. (I removed what I could, no new blue though)

I live in Suffolk county on LI and I echo the traffic light concerns.

Back to top

IP Logged

spacepirates

Serious Thumper

Offline

Igni Ferroque

Posts: 515
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: male

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #7 - 07/13/12 at 11:49:19

hooth4 wrote on 07/13/12 at 08:27:06:

I didn't understand about the jets

I don't know how much you do/don't know about jets, so here is a primer (my apologies if it is too basic for you):

Jets are little brass inserts in your carb of different sizes that allow more or less fuel to flow with the air into your cylinder. On the stock carb there are three jets: pilot (idle circuit), needle jet (mid range), and main jet (wide open throttle). Keep in mind these three circuits aren't entirely independent of each other. In addition, the stock carbs have an air mixture screw that affects the idle circuit, allowing you to fine tune the air/fuel mixture at low throttle ranges.

Anyways, if your idle jet is too small, and doesn't allow enough fuel to flow with the air, your engine will run lean (more air than fuel than is ideal) and lean means hot.

If you say the shop adjusted/cleaned your carb, you might want to look into tuning the carb yourself. Serowbot has some great tutorials on how to do this, so I won't get into it (look in the Tech section!). But if you are feeling a little DIY, take a screwdriver (if the air mixture screw is exposed (ask if it is not!)) and turn it in/out to get the best idle, and that will get you to a better idle mixture point.

Idle circuit aside, other circuits can be lean causing overheating, too. That is less common because you'd have to be moving to be using those circuits so your engine would be getting *some* cooling, but I digress...

Back to top

--
Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

IP Logged

Borracho Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 132 Albuquerque, NM Gender:	Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder! Reply #8 - 07/14/12 at 10:59:42 Check the radiator fluid
Back to top	2004, Jardine muffler, K&N drop-in, Corbin seat, Raptor petcock and Sportster handlebars with phony ISO grips. IP Logged

Charon Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1811 Harvard, NE Gender:	Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder! Reply #9 - 07/14/12 at 11:04:59 "All stock savages header pipes blue." Quoted from Supersavage, above. Not true. My '07 is bone stock, with over 11000 miles on it, including one very slow parade on a very hot day. There is no bluing on its exhaust pipe, and only the very faintest hint of gold.
Back to top	Eschew obfuscation. IP Logged

bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder! Reply #10 - 07/14/12 at 11:26:05 My 06 has a stock drilled muffler in the interior richer jets and no bluing or hint of gold. I have had a lot of motorcycles over 40 year none ever blued but a 1980 Moto Guzzi which wasn't double wall pipes which called for 98 octane gas which of course I couldn't get.
Back to top	william h krumpen IP Logged

Serowbot

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28644
Tucson Az
Gender: male

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #11 - 07/14/12 at 12:10:58

I remember blue,... that's what came after gold, and before black...
My pipe is a rainbow... ... and my jetting is good... but I ride in Az,.. and go from 2k to 9k elevation, with 40+ degree temp changes... a lot...
(a guy in a car at a traffic light asked me, once...
"Is that a custom color exhaust pipe?"... Cool!)...
Grin

...

Back to top

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh

...

IP Logged

WD

Serious Thumper
2005 No Login

Offline

Professional
"scooter
trash".

Posts: 5207
Rosemark TN
Gender: male

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #12 - 07/14/12 at 12:39:12

Just for giggles, take off the oil filter cover and see if the wrench monkeys put the filter in backwards. Hole goes IN, plate goes out. Unfortunately pretty common. So is the morons forgetting to make sure the o-ring is on the filter nipple. Either way, you'll get a miniscule amount of oil flow, but nowhere near what the engine needs.

Not enough oil flow and that cylinder is going to get hot.

Pull your sparkplug and smell the end. If it smells like a coal fired pizza oven, your engine is running hot because it is starving for oil. Trust me, I've got a 1000 pound boat anchor that used to be an engine in my antique truck right now (external oil line popped).

Otherwise it's a fuel flow issue.

I used mine in Mardis Gras traffic in a tiny town on the Gulf Coast (Long Beach MS) when the bike was new and stone stock, header pipe turned purple inside of 5 minutes. These bikes are super lean at sea level, they run HOT. BBQ grill hot.

Back to top

On 2 wheels since 7/87

Black and Chrome 2003 1950s style custom

IP Logged

Paraquat

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2206

Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Reply #13 - 07/14/12 at 13:42:53

Serowbot wrote on 07/14/12 at 12:10:58:

I remember blue,... that's what came after gold, and before black...
My pipe is a rainbow... ... and my jetting is good... but I ride in Az,.. and go from 2k to 9k elevation, with 40+ degree temp changes... a lot...
(a guy in a car at a traffic light asked me, once...
"Is that a custom color exhaust pipe?"... Cool!)...
Grin

...

--Steve

Back to top

IP Logged

87 savage Full Member Offline Gone riding! Posts: 249 Maine Gender:	Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder! Reply #14 - 07/14/12 at 18:46:29 thumperclone wrote on 07/13/12 at 10:08:29: main jet is the last 1/4 turn of the throttle to wot prime to start? may have a vacume leak and not getting enuf fuel Yup, and a vacuum leak will make you run lean and hot. I would do the Raptor petcock swap first then try it and see how it starts and runs.
Back to top	His: 1987 LS650F stock except for 98 engine, Dyna muffler. Hers: 2008 S40 with factory bags, windshield and sissybar. IP Logged