Drifter wrote on 07/14/12 at 07:27:29:

I think some of you should force yourselves out the stone age thinking......, back when the ethanol really was uncompatable w/ some of the fuel lines etc.
Fiberglass tanks in boats,......back in the 60s and 70s ?? Ok !


The fact is that everything in the last 20 yrs is compatable w/ E10, and gives no problems at all.   

Routy wrote on 07/15/12 at 08:17:00:


Routy I have to disagree. I work for an Outdoor Power Equipment dealer. One of the largest in Northern Kentucky with a customer base of near 15,000, commercial,residential,farm and municipal. We average seeing 30-50 2-cycle units alone each week that suffer from ethanol induced problems. Most of those problems are related to failed carbs due to alcohol in the fuel. Several of our commercial accounts are going to avgas for their 2-cycle equipment and all but eliminated fuel related issues.

On a smaller scale but growing steadily are the problems with 4-cycle engine of 10hp and under. Clogged carbs,scored cylinders,holed pistons are some of the bigger issues we see every day.

All the gas in my area is 10% ethanol. And It's playing havoc on my bikes! Especially my wife's old 650 Yamaha Vstar.
There was a varnish issue, so when I had the bike serviced, and I had it re-jetted for a Hyper Charger intake. Just last week a jet was clogged and one cylinder firing with less then two weeks of putting in new jets and cleaning the carb because of simular issues.
Like others have said, If you let your bikes sit for more then a week or two ethanol can give you issues.
So far my 750 Honda and Savage seem to be surviving. But, Yeah, I'll drain my carb bowls and tank if I have to stop riding anytime soon for awhile.

Is that why all my gas cans are coated inside w/ varnish !! Hum'mmm,
last time I looked, all my gas cans that sit winter after winter w/ E10 in them are spotless inside.
Fact is, todays gas does not varnish at all.

And isn't it amazing how the E10 knows if its a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke.
Oh, pardon me, is it the oil in the E10 gas that affects 2 strokes ??

And isn't it amazing how the E10 affects  4 strokes, 10 hp and smaller, but not 11 hp and larger.

Come on guys, get real !

Better yet, send some pics of all these late model carb that are just a terrible mess from E10 !  

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Routy....E10 damage is very real.

Your sealed gas cans don't suffer any damage, as there is no evaporation of the gasoline or chance for humid air to reach the fuel.  The same cannot be said for the equipment that sits in sheds, barns or outside.  The temperature and humidity changes allow humidity to reach the air space in the tanks and carbs.....and this moisture is absorbed by the fuel and eventually enough moisture collects to cause problems.  Sure this kind of stuff happened even prior to E10 - but the onset of problems now occurs faster with E10.

The reason that E10 causes problems in 2 strokes faster than 4 strokes is that oil and water don't mix - and when enough moisture has collected in the ethanol it can cause the oil mix to settle out of the fuel (phase seperation).  This has been a problem for years and is not something that chainsaw manufacturers will cover under warranty.

I believe the reason that 10 HP and smaller 4 stroke engines are  affected more than the larger engines is that they use gravity systems without fuel pumps, and people don't normally use a fuel shut off even if the engine is equipped with one.  When the engine sits dormant the fuel in the float bowl begins to evaporate and it leaves behind a high concentration of ethanol.  As the float level drops more fuel enters the carb and the gasoline portion evaporates.....and this process repeats until about the only thing in the carb float bowl is ethanol.....and it is corrosive to the carbs.  On the larger engines with fuel pumps the flow of fuel to the carb stops when the engine is not running.....so the damage is less likely to occur.  The same is true of our motorcycles with the vacuum operated petcocks that stop the flow of fuel when the engine is not running.

Photos......I really haven't documented the carbs that I have repaired or replaced.  I first started working on small engines in 1973 when I worked at a Simplicity/Toro/Poulan dealership, and I have definetely noticed the shift in the repairs.  As you say the old fuel used to eventually turn into varnish, and after equipment sat for a long time we would have to clean fuel tanks and carbs, and replace the brittle fuel lines.  Now the engines have carbs that are corroded and not usually varnished up, and the fuel lines and rubber parts are dissolved and swelled.

I have a feeling that whatever our experience is.......your heels are dug in the sand deep enough that you will only be convinced when you eventually have some personal experience with ethanol damage.
   

I myself have not seen any of these issues with e10 either.  Even in my lawn equipment when I forget to drain the tanks and carbs when they sit over the winter months.  I don't buy fuel from the one and only pure fuel station because they charge $0.60 more per gallon then anyone else in the area so I only use the e10 fuel, and I've never had an issue.

As a side not it doesn't get much more humid then where I live, I'm in east TX and live right on a lake, so I get the high temps and loads of humidity.

R.F.

Routy wrote on 07/16/12 at 06:32:43:



Well.....lets just assume that the E10 fuel we get in Kentucky is more destructive that what you get in Oregon. That can be the only reasonable explanation.....our personal experience is vastly different.

SALB wrote on 07/12/12 at 20:15:47:

I can't argue how E10 may affect old varnish etc that may have been left from the "yesterdecades" leaded gas......that really did leave varnish and Ka Ka...not only in the bowls, even in the venturis, and even the outsides of all carbs. But I believe we would have to be talking carbs dating back to the early 90s ??  
I will say I still use a 2 stroke tiller from that era that never gave any trouble,.....and is the same one that right now is running perfect on last year's 40:1 E10.
In reality, we have much less fuel related problems today than we did 30 yrs ago when leaded gas left nasty varnish deposits in anything that set unused for much length of time.