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Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting problem? (Read 225 times)
bojangals43
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Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting problem?
05/18/12 at 20:07:02
 
Hey guys!

  I love the info and wisdom you've shared here!  I've learned a lot reading the posts.  I have a a problem I'm hoping you can help me with.  

   I have an 02' savage (with the cam-chain already modified Wink).

I'bought it last month and have LOVED commuting to work every day(60 miles round trip).  It starts up every morning w/o a problem... that is until a few days ago.  I started it up while the fuel-tap was on "on" but it idled really low until finally dying.  It did this a few times until I switched to "reserve" (though it was full of gas) and it ran like normal.  It has done fine everyday unless i leave the fuel tap in the "on" position when I park it overnight.  Maybe this is a coincidense but today when I parked it at last- I opened the fuel cap and it gave me the infamous "swoosh".  Could my gas cap just have a vent clogged or is this the time to switch to the "raptor" fuel-tap?  Any help is greatly appreciated!
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #1 - 05/18/12 at 20:52:18
 
if it's inhaling when you open it up, the vent must be clogged.

cali bikes are vented thru a carbon canister to the carb
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #2 - 05/18/12 at 22:13:42
 
Mixed symptoms here...
"Phsst"... when you open cap, says clogged vent.
Working on reserve, says on position fuel tap of the petcock is blocked..

If you're not a Cali model... try blowing into the keyhole of the gas cap (off the bike.. Huh),.. squirt some carb cleaner in there...

If that don't fix it... I'd pull the petcock, disassemble and clean...
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #3 - 05/19/12 at 09:51:36
 
It's funny, but I only popped that gas cap off because my first bike was notorious for having a cap venting problem (96 vulcan 800). I actually just drilled the vent holes in it larger to correct the problem.  It's nice out today so I'm gonna check the cap - Do you think it's a bad idea to attempt the same fix and just drill larger vent holes Undecided?  I want to try one thing at a time to definitivly figure it out what the problem is.  She's my commuter so I'd hate to get stranded during the work week so if the cap doesn't do it then I guess I'll look into the petcock. Smiley
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #4 - 05/19/12 at 15:25:09
 
So I took the gas cap apart and cleaned it a bit.  It seemed to have a little bit of crap in it.  I went ahead and widened the original vent holes in the cap and put it  all back together.  Then went for a ride to fill her up and and warm up the engine.  When I parked it I checked to see if the tank was holding another vacuum and all seemed good!  The real test will be if when I start it up tomorrow while in the "on" position if it was just a coincidence that it ran better in reserve this last week... Huh

I'll send another update when I check tomorrow.  Thanks again for the help!  Smiley
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #5 - 05/20/12 at 15:54:00
 
Well, so far so good!  I went for a quick ride today and didn't have any issues with venting or when I started her up Grin.  If I have any issues this week I'll let you guys know but all seems good.  Thanks again for the advice!
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #6 - 05/21/12 at 06:34:12
 
If you take on the mindset of most here,.... mostly Oldfeller, and have no apprecieation for the advantages/benefits/saftey factor of the vacuum controlled petcock, you could just "Raptorize" now, and never have to think about the petcock again,.......untill you forget to turn it off, and your float valve sticks, and fills your crancase w/ gasoline, or you ever go down, and have a whole tank of gas running around your beaten battered body,.......and thats before (God forbid) the fire !  Shocked
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #7 - 05/21/12 at 08:24:09
 
 
What Routy says above is true -- I would recommend taking off the vac petcock on any bike that shows "carb issues" or fuel supply issues and replacing it with a Raptor petcock.    list of issues is here  http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1

Why?   You cannot separate the 5 known failure modes of the stock vac petcock from other carb/fuel supply issues that your bike may have and it makes it VERY DIFFICULT to troubleshoot your issues when you have vac petcock issues in the mix clouding up the water so to speak.

Most bikes show immediate improvements from the Raptor installation as it immediately removes ALL vac petcock effects.   The remaining true issues with other systems, carb, tank cap, etc. are easily identified and fixed then.

But in this case, I am glad it was correctly identified as a plugged cap vent and you fixed it with minimal trouble.



The following information can be found in this thread  
   suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1337217774/15#15


===========


splash07 wrote on 05/19/12 at 15:40:25:
verslagen1 wrote on 05/16/12 at 18:45:33:
check your petcock

+1

Splash07 speaking:  Had the same symptoms and sure enough it was the petcock. letting too much gas down the vac line and overflowing oil out the crankcase breather.


============


OF speaking:  I guess you are saying it overfilled your crankcase by adding such a volume of gasoline to the sump the oil/gas mix was blowing out the top breather tube down to the air box ???


Wow -- please tell me this didn't happen for real !!!


Shocked   Shocked    Shocked      Molotov cocktail, just needed a backfire spark .....       Routy wants very much for this not to be the case, as do I



===========



Splash07 speaking:   No, not down the air box, no air box, so it blew gas oil mix out the crankcase breather filter just under the tank and all over me and the rear tire while going down the highway at about 45 mph. Not exactly safe.


==========



OF speaking:   So, you are telling us that a bad stock vac petcock was dumping enough gasoline down the vac tube to overfill your sump to the point that gas/oil mix was coming out the top blow by tube and spraying flammable gas/oil mix on your legs and lower body?

You do realize that a carb backfire or a road tossed rock making a spark could have turned you into a localized version of The Burning Man ????




Routy, I am sorry.   I wanted him to say no too.  But he didn't.

You have defended the stock vac petcock all along and you have always said (as you did above) that the basis for your staunch defence was safety related and you predicted that the Raptor would eventually cause some sort of float/sticking event that put gasoline into a sump.  

It is ironic that the "burning man" scenario that you feared has finally happened, but it was the stock vacuum actuated petcock that did it using one of the most popular of the 5 known vac petcock failure modes to do it.


Huh



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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #8 - 05/21/12 at 08:45:34
 
Well SOMEbody just got burned  Cheesy  Thankfully not literally.  

Maybe Splash07 oughtta change his handle to SplashOgas  Grin  Congrats on not getting hurt..
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #9 - 05/21/12 at 08:51:33
 
Routy,.. OF is right...
A vac petcock is a good idea, with a bad execution...  It is designed as a double safety for the fuel system, but,... it has a higher failure rate than the system itself...
It causes the problem more often than prevents it...

In the situation OF just described.... with a vac petcock,... what could you do?...  Turn to Prime?.. Reserve?.. leave it on On?... makes no difference...
Fuel with still be spewing out...

With a Raptor,... turn petcock to Off... Fuel is stopped...  Then you can pull over,.. and find the problem... Without fuel still spewing...

With the stock petcock,.. even when you get pulled over,.. the fuel is still pouring down... How do you stop it?...
Quickly,.. pull the vac and fuel lines,... and hope you can find something to block those lines on the side of the road..
Then try to fix the problem, on the side of the road...
Which in this case, requires defeating the vacuum petcock... because it is the problem...

The vac petcock will stop a leak in your driveway... or perhaps if your bike falls over, but only on the left side...
It creates an unstoppable fuel leak on the road at 50mph... (I had the same thing happen the first week I had my Savage)...
How in the world is that safe?... Huh...

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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #10 - 05/21/12 at 08:51:49
 

Boule,    I sure am glad to see you.  

You scared the pee hummie out of me when you got all quiet on us .....
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #11 - 05/21/12 at 09:17:56
 
Interesting thread-- and very timely for me.
I just finished assembling my '02-- Sporty muffler, Lancer jets, cone air filter,carb spring mod, smaller battery in airbox, fatboy bars, custom saddle (I'll post photos later).
Started right up but ran only at idle-- and only with choke about 7/8 closed above idle.  I left stabilized fuel in the tank while it was off all winter and had no problems with fuel flow last fall.
Am I, too, likely to be among the accursed vacuum petcock victime?
How would you troubleshoot?
Thanks
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #12 - 05/21/12 at 09:22:56
 
NHthumper wrote on 05/21/12 at 09:17:56:
Am I, too, likely to be among the accursed vacuum petcock victime?
How would you troubleshoot?
Thanks

Sorry NH,... you've made too many changes, all at once for any guessing...
.. but , here is the test to rule out a petcock problem...
Test your Petcock,.. don't just turn it to Prime..

Do this test,.. and post results in a new thread... we can go on from there...
Wink...
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #13 - 05/22/12 at 11:04:53
 
Well now I'm just irritated Angry.  I started her up this morning and she was acting up again.  I'm gonna just have to test the petcock but my thought is that it is very slowly letting gas through overnight.  I will say; this only happens after I have filled up and left it overnight... This couldn't be a problem could it?  I'm going to test it but I think I may just have to order the "raptor" to help corner the problem.  She rides great but obviously just lets too much gas through some nights-making the morning startup maddening.  Hoses seem fine too.  After looking into them, I know once I order the "raptor" it'll take almost a week to get to me which sucks Sad.  Thanks again for listening to me vent again Cheesy
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Re: Not sure if it's the petcock or a venting prob
Reply #14 - 05/22/12 at 20:30:43
 
bojangals43 wrote on 05/22/12 at 11:04:53:
Well now I'm just irritated Angry.  I started her up this morning and she was acting up again.  I'm gonna just have to test the petcock but my thought is that it is very slowly letting gas through overnight.  I will say; this only happens after I have filled up and left it overnight... This couldn't be a problem could it?

If you suspect it is flooding out overnight, definitely pull the vacuum line off the petcock and see if it smells like gas.. it should not. I think that is part of Serowbot's procedure.  Also check for "extra" oil in your crankcase, as in, make sure some gas didn't seep in there through the vac line and dilute it.  Those would be the most critical things to check, and thankfully easy.  
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