SuzukiSavage.com - synthetic oil?

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: synthetic oil? Reply #45 - 02/27/12 at 18:28:21 billshutter was his nameO!
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feelinjunky Full Member Offline No Comment Posts: 238 NJ	Re: synthetic oil? Reply #46 - 02/27/12 at 18:42:45 Holy nuts, this isn't the 1960s. Oils are G status nowadays so use whatever you want. The only way you can say one oil is better than another is if using a certain oil causes engine damage faster than another oil, which hasn't ever happened and won't happen. Relax.
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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #47 - 02/27/12 at 20:25:40

feelinjunky wrote on 02/27/12 at 18:42:45:

Holy nuts, this isn't the 1960s. Oils are G status nowadays so use whatever you want.

The only way you can say one oil is better than another is if using a certain oil causes engine damage faster than another oil, which hasn't ever happened and won't happen.

Now we gots us a live one who has done picked up his rife and has done gone to shooting.

"if using a certain oil causes engine damage faster than another oil, which hasn't ever happened and won't happen."

I think 5w30 & 10w30 energy star car oils cause engine damage faster than you can say "slippy clutch" which has happened and will happen.

Or did you mean "a certain oil" and "another oil" that are selected with both within some certain range of parameters?

Clarify what you meant a bit, while good ol' Bill searches for his Klotz motorcycle break in oil. I'll be helpful, and give you the written data to pick between using your very own favorite Castrol GTX as the example.

SAE 5W-30:
is a premium, super multi-grade that provides maximum cold weather engine protection and can help extend engine life. SAE 5W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding all the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for PI Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards.

SAE 10W-30:
is a premium, super multi-grade that provides excellent fuel economy and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. Exceeds GM6094M.

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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #48 - 02/27/12 at 23:42:18

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 02/27/12 at 20:25:40:

I think 5w30 & 10w30 energy star car oils cause engine damage faster than you can say "slippy clutch" which has happened and will happen.

One would think people would have the common sense to assume that "oil" on a motorcycle forum would mean oil for motorcycles and not cars...I don't believe I need to clarify my wording.

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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #49 - 02/28/12 at 00:14:48

And it would amaze you that people do use car oils in their Savages and then post here about their clutch slippage issues?
Too frequently, too.

Ok, so you don't want to specify what you really meant. But it sounds like "motorcycle oils" are the subset you want to limit your point to cover.

How does somebody who doesn't know "motorcycle oils" from German potato salad find them at the Advanced Auto Store? Heck, I don't see any Klotz, or Royal Purple or Amisol in there either.

All I see is Harley Davidson oil, is that "motorcycle oil"? How about this MX oil I see over here, it has a wheeling dirt bike on the label -- is it "motorcycle oil"?

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: synthetic oil? Reply #50 - 02/28/12 at 05:11:50 verslagen1 wrote on 02/26/12 at 11:26:56: bill sort of told the truth? Klotz does not publish the amount of ZDDP in their oil. So we would need to add twice as much to meet the requirements of Web Cam. RotSyn is JASO MA rated and that is all that is required by suzuki. Klotz mx4 is 1400 zddp.
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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #51 - 02/28/12 at 06:58:32

Builtolast66 wrote

I'm just gonna drain it and throw Rotella Triple back in, that stuff seemed to be the smoothest so far... as far as temps and specs it couldn't be worse than the Suzuki brand oil, my clutch was slipping like a pregnant dog with that stuff...

Sounds like good advice , with a 1/4 bottle of RedLine thrown in for good mesure.

I'll try AutoZone , see if they carry RedLine brand. Thinking about it .... Isn't any break-in-additive gona have the same count of them "Z" things ?

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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #52 - 02/28/12 at 08:25:29

Oil wars, don't you just love it! Listen real close, you can use whatever oil you want, that is why there is a drain plug and a filler cap. I just know that I have used Castrol for the last thirty plus years in Suzukis, I have never experienced a slipping clutch, or any engine damage that was oil related.. In fact saw virtually no wear on cam lobes, tappet faces, or valve shims using this oil... Please though use what YOU want, I its one of those "I don't care" moments... Grin

If anything will help your engine breakin after major rebuild, it is riding it, varying speeds, rolling on and off the throttle, getting them good and hot, and changing oil and filter shortly after.. These bikes are very old engine designs, do not use synthetics for breakins, wait for a couple thousand miles before switching, if thats the oil you want to use...
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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #53 - 02/28/12 at 08:37:49

Built2Last wrote on 02/27/12 at 05:06:02:

I think since I've started using Rotella T6 my decel pops have turned into mini backfires... still no clutch slippage though... I'm just gonna drain it and throw Rotella Triple back in, that stuff seemed to be the smoothest so far... as far as temps and specs it couldn't be worse than the Suzuki brand oil, my clutch was slipping like a pregnant dog with that stuff...

Watch out for suzuki oil,clutch slips.trans want shift,exhaust pops.makes the seat hard,brake noises,tires wear out fast.

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« Last Edit: 02/28/12 at 11:15:40 by bill67 »

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: synthetic oil? Reply #54 - 02/28/12 at 11:11:06 I have been using either Mobil1 V-Twin 20w50 or Amsoil 20w50 (both full synthetic) for years and have had no clutch problems at all. Seems like one of them used to be 15w50 and is now 20w50 but I don't recall for sure.
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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #55 - 02/28/12 at 12:15:10

bill67 wrote on 02/28/12 at 05:11:50:

verslagen1 wrote on 02/26/12 at 11:26:56:

bill sort of told the truth?
Klotz does not publish the amount of ZDDP in their oil.
So we would need to add twice as much to meet the requirements of Web Cam.
RotSyn is JASO MA rated and that is all that is required by suzuki.

Klotz mx4 is 1400 zddp.

Bill, good try but no banana, where is that Klotz break in oil for motorcycles that you promised us with the required 1,800 ppm??

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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #56 - 02/28/12 at 12:31:34

Retread, the discussion with Bill is currently circling around high PPMs of ZDDP because that is what Web Cam requires for a break in oil so their weld up style high lift & duration cam profile doesn't shred itself. Gotta separate that point from the normal engine requirements, or you may get confused.

We do that a lot around here, get confused ....

Savage engines do use flat tappet technology that requires an intention pick on your oil to have enough ZDDP to do the job, especially if you plan to run any additional rpms using a hot cam.

Why pick high ZDDP instead of the moderate levels of ZDDP and moly or other friction fighters as are used in most car oils? Wet clutch plates can slip in moly rich oils, this has happened here on the list so we know it is an issue ....

But yes, this is America and you can put in any sort of oil you like into your Savage.

But is it the best pick? Without thinking about it some, how do you know?

For example, you mention Castrol without saying which one (brand family), or even which weight. Castrol does have oils in the brand family groups that ARE NOT SUITABLE for Savage engines .... (see upthread)

So how do you narrow it down to the appropriate Castrol oil and weight?

.... pick a specific Castrol that you really like and are willing to rest your rifle on for some steady like shoot'n.

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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #57 - 02/28/12 at 13:35:15

bill67 wrote on 02/28/12 at 05:11:50:

verslagen1 wrote on 02/26/12 at 11:26:56:

bill sort of told the truth?
Klotz does not publish the amount of ZDDP in their oil.
So we would need to add twice as much to meet the requirements of Web Cam.
RotSyn is JASO MA rated and that is all that is required by suzuki.

Klotz mx4 is 1400 zddp.

Is there a link to that data or did you use a weegee board?

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: synthetic oil? Reply #58 - 02/28/12 at 14:09:16 Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 02/28/12 at 12:31:34: the discussion with Bill is currently circling around high PPMs of ZDDP because that is what Web Cam requires for a break in oil so their weld up style high lift & duration cam profile doesn't shred itself. Good to know when I get to that point. Thanks!
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Re: synthetic oil?
Reply #59 - 02/28/12 at 14:26:45

Zddp.. I am to running a webcam (their light grind), saw NO requirement from them to run a high ZDDP PPM oil. The failure in high performance cams with present day dino oils is a situation that can be related to several things, over revving, lugging, improper post installation care, and of course just plain old parts failure.. I sometimes run a light weight non-detergent oil in break in for full rebuilds, this is a very short term break in, up to temp, shutdown, drain, filter, and new run oil in... This prevents cylinder glazing that can sometimes take place with synthetics and high ZDDP's.. I am presently using Castrol GTX 10-40, and plan on draining at 200 miles, inspecting cam lobes, adjusting valves, and changing oil and filter.. I may put in some 0-40 Amsoil, and I may not, all depending on what I find... I gave up years ago worrying about what my oil was doing while riding, I have built and ridden some pretty high performance machines, and oil ingredients, or lack of(even the cheap stuff) have never let me down.. Now riders have!

Enjoy.. Cool

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