Bill was trying to refer to what I really actually did with Rotella Syn, not to what he should do (conditional tense) but doesn't plan to do with his Klotz (should he ever happen to have a hot cam that is).

Remember, the language he speaks is Billish -- future intent is stated in the present or past tense as in Billish as there is sometimes no difference between future possible intent and fact.  

Billish statements can sometimes be confusing that way.   When he talks in future conditional tense as to what newbies "should do" I can sometimes get really really confused when translating.


=======   we can try a direct question if you want to  ======


Bill, if you were running a hot cam that requires 18,000 parts per million of ZDDP during break in  --  which Klotz product would you use?

 
"STP, the racer's edge" jingle dates all the way back to 1968 and it was emblazoned on lots of NASCAR racers since then.   It is a great big mass of polymerization that greatly thickened your oil way past any normal oil rating.    It used to have a lot of ZDDP in it, but no longer does.  Great advertising jingle for a product that is no longer wanted or needed in modern cars   (voids your Nissan or Honda warranty if used during warranty period).  

Old Chevy's certainly needed some help with hydraulic lifters that wouldn't stay pumped up and STP and Lucas Oil Treatment provided it, along with something to help out those thumping worn out main and rod bearings.

Hey, put a bunch of standard STP or Lucas into your Savage's sump just to see if your clutch can really slip some for you ....

Marvel Mystery Oil and Seafoam and Lucas Fuel System Additive are certainly mysterious, but they sometimes will unplug one of our Savage carburetors from a soft fouling blockage in a jet passage.    But lots of times they don't, too.    

But at least you tried it before you had to take the carb apart.


========================


No modern oil needs "additives" and hasn't for the last decade at least.

People who routinely add various stuff to their sumps now days are supporting old 1970's companies who have outlived their "oil ain't so good right now" period and are simply searching for something to sell.

Unless you have a specific need (say 18,000 PPM of ZDDP during a high lift cam break in period) you should simply buy the oil product that fits your intended use.

 
Your Savage cam and tappets cannot "dry start" by design -- the cam lobes dip into the head oil bathtub once every revolution and coat the cam lobe rubbing surface with a fresh coating of oil.

You can dry start a plain journal bearing in the head though, if you haven't run the bike in months and months.    But this rarely happens.

ZDDP does its thing when we are roaring our Savages through the mountains -- temp is up high and contact line pressures on the high RPM tappets and cam lobes go past any oil film's rational ability to hang in there.   ZDDP was invented to recover from the low cost flat tappet engine's design flaws, really.

Modern engines have bearing rollers to remove this high point load, or else really big smooth flat caps on the valves that get directly actuated by a large wide cam profile (sports bikes use this generally) that once again remove the high point loading.

NO ENGINE built today uses the old flat tappets ('cept ours of course).






Having found a good full synthetic base oil ZDDP break-in additive, the temptation is to keep on using it.   After all, a 4 year supply is only $12 .....    

If we had decent silica control with our air and oil filter system we could use the stuff to run a sump of oil endlessly, just adding oil as needed and putting our shot glass of Red Line in each spring to completely refresh our critical oil packages.

But we don't have good silica control in our Savage at all, our silicates build up in the oil because our air filters don't stop all the dust and our oil filters pass all the tiny fine silicates dust right on through (eventually the oil filter plugs up with the little fine metal bits from the tranny and cam chain).  

So, even with a good full synthetic I still have to change out the oil out every year and swap out my oil filter (super magnet boosted for finer ferrous filtration, btw) every 2 years.   I do it simply to get all of the built up silica dust out of the engine.


I don't recommend this drain interval to you guys at all -- my bike has a heavily modified air filter system and a very heavily modified oil filtration system that supports this sort of drain interval.



         



.... that Red Line bottle looks temping, don't it?    Real head crack candy to the "additive addicts" amongst us, ain't it?

18,000 PPM is the break-in amount Web Cam was hunting for.   Highest levels historically found were in out and out real racing oils which currently top out at a whopping 22,000 PPM.   Beyond 22,000 PPM it simply doesn't do anything much for the additional amount put in and it can cause a weird form of oil acidification/corrosion up above 22,000 PPM, so yes there is a top limit but I would not know where the top limit would actually be for a Savage engine.   I have always shot for the 18,000 to 22,000 PPM range when I bumped with the Red Line stuff.


normal modern car oils at 5,000 to 7,000 PPM is way too low for a Savage
10,000 PPM is bare bones minimum for a stock Savage
12,000 to 18,000 PPM is better for a Savage  (Rotella products have 12,000 PPM)
22,000 PPM is the max you can buy (Amisol and Royal Purple does a racing oil at this level)



To all additive addicts -- you can buy it here or at your local fast car shop.  It will not affect your clutch at all.
(which may not be true for what you are pouring in there now)      


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RED-81403/?rtype=10

I think since I've started using Rotella T6 my decel pops have turned into mini backfires... still no clutch slippage though... I'm just gonna drain it and throw Rotella Triple back in, that stuff seemed to be the smoothest so far... as far as temps and specs it couldn't be worse than the Suzuki brand oil, my clutch was slipping like a pregnant dog with that stuff...

Built2Last wrote on 02/27/12 at 05:06:02:



Only time I have had this pow pow pow decel happen to me the joint at the muffler to header and the one at the header pipe to head had vibrated loose some and were leaking a lot of fresh air into the pipe on the reverse pulse which then ignited the hot rich exhaust gasses.   Noticed the symptom when I was headed on back from a Dragon run, both me and the bike were beat up a little bit from that one.

If using T6 caused any changes to exhaust notes, somebody else would have noticed it before now I would think.  Only thing reported multiple times so far is "smoother shifting" and "less slippage" but that was from people who already had shifting or slipping problems, normal folks really don't see a lot of difference when changing oil brands.

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 02/27/12 at 09:55:03:

OF keeps the $ stores going.