SuzukiSavage.com - Different octanes

bigdave

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Different octanes
09/27/11 at 20:03:08

So one of the feeds I posted got off track by this subject. So lets see what everyone thinks,knows or questions.

I am a corn fed Hoosier that's had very mechanically inclined family members since there isn't anything to do in Indiana but tinker with stuff. My family has since passed or bad blood to refer to them about stuff. I have always been taught to use 93 in machines I care for, dirt bikes,quads,cars if they'll take it & so on. I recently saw an article in the local college about a test they did & the difference between octanes. They not only put them in different engines of the same kind but did a glass bottle observation. 87 showed much more gunk in it than the higher octanes. I did the test myself and got the same. The test the college showed was better engine performance & less residue than others. The reason this came up in the thread is because I mistakenly put 87 in my bike,99 savage,& then started getting backfires & now the nine is out of commission for a while. I use to only put 93 in but I wasn't thinking right when I pumped the gas, Eye candy w/daisy dukes walking in the store, Wink

but I never had problems until I put the gas in there. So I'd like so feedback or like to hear others questions on this as one gentleman swears by 87 on here.

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OdysseusNY

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Re: Different octanes
Reply #1 - 09/27/11 at 20:22:40

bigdave wrote on 09/27/11 at 20:03:08:

So I'd like so feedback or like to hear others questions on this as one gentleman swears by 87 on here.

Higher octane allows for higher compression ratios for the combustion. If a given machine is not setup to use higher compression ratios, the higher octane makes absolutely no difference. If a manufacturer recommends 87, then it means that device doesn't use high enough compression ratios to take advantage of premium.

There are a few exceptions, notably high altitude means you can usually run *lower* octane. But this is not one of the exceptions. It is just coincidence, or perhaps their particular 87 pump has some impurities or whatever. But nothing to do with the octane.

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OdysseusNY

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Re: Different octanes
Reply #2 - 09/27/11 at 20:26:45

bigdave wrote on 09/27/11 at 20:03:08:

I recently saw an article in the local college about a test they did & the difference between octanes. They not only put them in different engines of the same kind but did a glass bottle observation. 87 showed much more gunk in it than the higher octanes. I did the test myself and got the same.

You can't "see" octane. People sometimes see what they expect to however.

If there is gunk in a sample it has something to do with the pump/tank/delivery truck/etc. Not the octane rating. Often the premium comes from the exact same source fuel as the regular, and they just use an additive of some sort to increase the octane. It's often easier to ship one big tank of fuel and then add some stuff than to ship 3 medium tanks of fuel.

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bigdave

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Re: Different octanes
Reply #3 - 09/27/11 at 20:46:35

I didn't say they or I could see the "octane" itself but the 87 showed more gunk than the others. I didn't do much observation but one test. They tested several stations,different times if the year,when the underground tank was being filled & when the tank was getting low& halfway empty. & they did a whole lot more. If I find the article I'll post it up. I was told that the higher the octane,the more particles that are removed in the pumps filter & that the addatives help eat away the gunk before it hits our tank. Not sure if that's true just commenting on what was said to me by an ol time biker at the pub.

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Routy Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2280 Winston Oregon Gender:	Re: Different octanes Reply #4 - 09/27/11 at 21:11:24 What do you mean by "gunk" ? If you think that hi grade gas is cleaner (less gunkier) than 87, you are badly mistaken. And if you think 87 had anything to do w/ your problem, you are badly mistaken too.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Different octanes Reply #5 - 09/27/11 at 21:11:42 I used to maintain pumps for a string of stores,,The filters on the pumps are the same,
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bigdave

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Re: Different octanes
Reply #6 - 09/27/11 at 21:19:39

About the filters-like I said that was just passed down to me from a guy at the pub.

About the grades- I know I could tell a difference between the gunk, or floaties/ particles or whatever you want to call it. & I only did the test after I saw it published by the college. I didn't really know the difference between grade levels except cost & better performance in my dirtbike.

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monoaural YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 4	Re: Different octanes Reply #7 - 09/27/11 at 21:22:51 Only difference I have seen is shell and their vpower additives in their premium. I have to put premium in my BMW because my chip advances the timing for more power. Other wise 87 would be fine.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Different octanes Reply #8 - 09/27/11 at 21:35:12 I've been told by a couple of different brands of gas that they only put additives in the 93 octane gas.
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Boule’tard

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Re: Different octanes
Reply #9 - 09/27/11 at 23:05:40

When I was an attendant at a gas station, they told me (to tell customers who asked) that all 3 grades had the same additives, but the higher grades had a higher concentration of additives.

Two caveats:
*This was about 1993, things may have changed.
*They didn't specify how much higher the concentration was, coulda been 1 cup per 1000 gallons or less, just so they could say "more additives"

I don't have any high compression engines anymore, so I just get the cheap stuff.

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Re: Different octanes
Reply #10 - 09/27/11 at 23:45:36

Premium gas is for high performance, high compression engines.... it has an additive to reduce engine knock...
This added stuff,... means less actual combustible fuel...
Not a lot, but some... This means less power per gallon, and fewer miles per gallon...
If your vehicle is not high performance, high compression,... it will not increase power or mileage...
Mid-grade gas,... is just a mix of premium and regular...
Most stations only have two tanks... not three... mid-grade is a blend...
Regular gas has the most combustible fuel in it... and gives the most power and mileage per gallon...

If "gunk" is in fuel from the pump,... it is likely from the tanks.... and the one with the least circulation will gather the most sediments...
If,... for some reason, more people buy premium than regular,... or even more mid-grade, it will have less sediments...
Since most modern vehicles use regular, it usually has the most use, and should have the least contaminants...

Our bikes are low compression, torquey, thumpers... and will run best on the most commonly used fuel... Regular...
Adding anti-knock to an engine that don't knock is like diluting your gas... less performance, and less mileage...
Probably not much,... but why pay extra to get less?...
... and usually.... premium gas tanks get used and filled less often at the gas station...

No matter what you think of your own personal Savage,... road eater that it is,... it ain't a rocket, and it don't need or want, rocket fuel...

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drums1

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Re: Different octanes
Reply #11 - 09/28/11 at 02:18:51

Here in SE Wisconsin, in the middle of the Milwaukee-Chicago-Gary industrial corridor, we get a 10% ethenol additive across the board. (Maybe them is some corn bits floating around in there, but it would be in all grades.) I have never done a clarity test, so I can't say for sure.

As far as octane level.....ever wondered if those tanks on the trucks that deliver gas have seperate compartments for different grades, or is it all one kind of gas filling 3 different underground tanks? Pay for premium, end up with regular? Who's to say for sure. Where is the additive added? At the refinery? Underground at the station?
I once knew a guy that worked at a Clark station. He told me "don't waste your money on premium. It's basically all the same stuff".

I've only used premium in anything I've owned maybe a dozen times or so, a couple by mistake. I have never noticed any difference in performane or mileage.

I use 87 in all my vehicles.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Different octanes Reply #12 - 09/28/11 at 06:33:43 I once knew a guy that worked at a Clark station. He told me "don't waste your money on premium. It's basically all the same stuff". BASICally, it is,, its the differences in the details that matters,, run regular in a high compression engine & listen to it knock,,
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: Different octanes Reply #13 - 09/28/11 at 09:11:45 Ditto for just about everyone. The overall point: Savages are designed for 87. Using octane higher than that just wastes money, and does YOU no good whatsoever.
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SaVaGeEaRL Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 106 Georgetown, KY Gender:	Re: Different octanes Reply #14 - 09/28/11 at 10:40:32 all I can say is 8 years owning my 2001 and putting 9,500 miles on it with 87 octane has never caused any running problems.
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