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Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock (Read 465 times)
paramedic9004
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Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
09/27/11 at 13:04:41
 
So I am relatively new to this forum.  After countless hours of reading about my minor issues, I decided to attempt a few suggestions posted prior to asking questions.

06 model.  Stock everything.  

Just purchased this for a little project bike after seeing the mods that can be done in the Bobber scene.  (Die Hard Triumph Guy).

Long story short...bike won't go over 60 mph.  So I get to reading.  First thing I have noticed is that folks wanna pull the carb and rejet or clean or what not.  Others say petcock.  Others may argue it's the paint color or a leaking gas cap.  So I started with easiest and most inexpensive.  

Change the gasket on gas cap.  No Dice
Raptor 660 petcock ordered.
Install Raptor (5 minutes).  Winner winner chicken dinner.

So, I decided to post this to see if we could get the ole' petcock debate rolling again.   Grin

I am sold on the Raptor.
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #1 - 09/27/11 at 13:18:01
 
to Raptor or not to Raptor, that is the question....

I also had an '06...first time I rode to work in the cold it cut out as I was coasting up to a light. Pulled to the side, gave it lot's of gas and hit the ignition...finally turned over and I revved the throttle all the way to work to keep it from dying at every light. Temps warmed up during the day and ran fine.
This sceanario played out twice after this. I ordered a Raptor before ever doing the official petcock test. I've NEVER had the problem since. I HAVE done other mods since then but this was the first one.
I'm convinced...
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #2 - 09/27/11 at 14:06:08
 
I wonder how many miracles credited to the Raptor were simply a vacuum leak fixed by working with the vacuum hose -- either by replacing it or snipping off the end and using some unstretched tubing or just sealing better because of the twisting/pulling/etc. from the petcock install.
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #3 - 09/27/11 at 14:14:30
 
beats me but for 20 bucks a raptor has taken any vac problems out of the equation...
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #4 - 09/27/11 at 15:40:45
 

Yep, Raptor goes in and it no longer matters which of the 5-6 odd vac petcock scenarios was a workin' the evil (along with something else, most likely).

Like the man said "Winner Winner, chicken dinner !!"

It all goes away and STAYS AWAY forever -- which none of you vac fiddlers seem to get in your vac fiddler thinking -- it NEVER comes back in any of its forms or fashions.   ENDED FOREVER
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #5 - 09/27/11 at 16:01:45
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 09/27/11 at 15:40:45:

Yep, Raptor goes in and it no longer matters which of the 5-6 odd vac petcock scenarios was a workin' the evil (along with something else, most likely).

Like the man said "Winner Winner, chicken dinner !!"

It all goes away and STAYS AWAY forever -- which none of you vac fiddlers seem to get in your vac fiddler thinking -- it NEVER comes back in any of its forms or fashions.   ENDED FOREVER


That's sound logic to me
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #6 - 09/27/11 at 17:18:09
 
If any person is too ignorant to trouble shoot anything, must less understand how it works, or what makes it work, or why it was installed in the first place, then it may appear to be smart to take the simple no brainer way out,....like do the Raptor.
But just be advised that you not only did away w/ a "could be" important safety device, and that you must now remember to shut off the fuel, and when you don't, and all of a sudden one day your engine is noisy as hell,.........so you stop and check your oil, and it appears to be empty, when in reality its way over full w/ gasoline, and worse yet it costs you a major......because the crankshaft doesn't really like being lubricated w/ gasoline......or if you ever go down (god forbid) and a fire erupts because the vac petcock did not shut the fuel off when the engine quit running,......or the carb overflowed running raw gasoline to your nearby water heater in your garage, and your house goes phoof !!!Berooooooommm,.......if you're still alive, don't come a snibblin over here,.......cuz I'll be here just waiting !!  Shocked
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #7 - 09/27/11 at 17:38:28
 
Routy's right... gas in your oil is a bad, bad thing!...

I've had it twice,.....   ...when my stock vacuum operated petcock leaked down the vacuum line...
Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #8 - 09/27/11 at 17:45:52
 
I'll bite - and not to be argumentative. How does the stock vacuum petcock perform as a safety device? And why not offset its various issues, as frequently reported here, with a simpler device that when it's off it's OFF? My first  M/C, lo these many decades ago, had such a petcock and for me at least turning it to "off" was simply a part of shutting off the bike. If this is safety vs. KISS principle, please 'splain.
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White '07, OEM wind screen, 1" seat lift, re-shaped OEM seat, seat beads, TKat, Dyna muffler (Serowbot), Raptor petcock, seat pins (Verslagen1), Big Crank.
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #9 - 09/27/11 at 18:40:20
 
Az,.. if you go down,... and manage to do it on the left side, and kill the engine, and the tank isn't ruptured...
...the vac petcock will stop a fuel leak... providing that it's working after the accident...

I'd call it a 35% safety...   Huh...

left side... 50%...
Engine dies... 70%...
tank and petcock in tact... 80%...
___________
all three happen at once... 35%...

... 'course, this only matters if the bike would have caught fire...
I've been down a few times,... even under a truck, and never caught fire...
... chance of fire...  maybe 5%...

35% of 5%... =  about 2%...  

2% chance it will ever help you in a crash... Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #10 - 09/27/11 at 18:48:49
 

You're asking Routy to explain his vac petcock beliefs?  

Good luck there -- nobody has gotten a concise sensible answer from him yet as he has no personal experience at all with vac petcock failures and he only has his interpretations of what he remembers of other people's statements to share with you.

And we all enjoy correcting his misinterpretations of what we have said in the past -- it is kinda like a little hobby.

==========

Vac petcocks are intended to be a convienience and a safety factor as they are intended to stop all gas movement when the engine isn't running.   In theory, this would be nice.

The IMPLEMENTATION of this "sounds good" idea is flawed very badly on the Savage because we don't have a mulicylinder smmooooth large steady vacuum action on our big single, we have a bunch of sharp separate vac pulses that vary in frequency and amplitude according to how hard we are on the throttle and how many rpms the engine is turning.   Our output vac gas flow is the same way, gas pulses of varying frequency and amplitude in proportion to what the engine fed into the vac petcock's input tube.

Experience has taught us that the resulting gas flow does not always meet the needs of the engine, and the engine gas starves and can die on you in traffic.

Now Routy will say something and somebody else will say something and our second most favorite endless debate will go on unimpeded for as long as anybody will respond to the last thing said .....

Wink
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« Last Edit: 09/27/11 at 20:24:55 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #11 - 09/27/11 at 19:26:58
 
I wonder what it is about the Savage petcock that generates such passion.

The last 11 motorcycles I have owned all had vacuum-operated petcocks.  None ever had a problem.  Some of those bikes were fairly old, too.  One had 80,000 miles on it.  No petcock malfunctions.  Ever.

Maybe Suzuki subcontracted the petcock contract to a fuel systems vendor that had unionized labor.

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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #12 - 09/27/11 at 20:17:07
 

Actually, it is the SAME vac petcock that was used on a lot of Suzuki bikes from the same era -- inline4s, big V twins -- engines that offered more vac and a more steady vac to run the thing.

Bill makes the point he owned a few of these with the same vac petcock and had no issues with them.

However, if either of you will state the bike and the year you think is flawless enough to hold up your point then 5-10 minutes on the net going to the applicable bike fan site might find some discussions of vac petcock issues that you were unaware of with those same "flawless" bikes.

I'd be surprised if any vac petcock that depends on a "gasoline soaked on one side/vac on the other side" style cloth/rubber diaphragm isn't going to have some long term issues with stiffening and cracking.

I think ours is just very noticiable because we lack an oversuppy of vacuum to operate it and the marginal conditions bite us in the ass more than on other V engined or inline4 engined bikes ....

Plus, that constant big single intake pulsation actuation has got to fatique the rubber/cloth matrix more than say a inline4 would do.  And all that big single pulse based constant flexing back & forth between open and shut has got to be hard on the vac petcock valve/seat too ...
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #13 - 09/27/11 at 20:34:59
 
Gyrobob wrote on 09/27/11 at 19:26:58:
I wonder what it is about the Savage petcock that generates such passion.

The last 11 motorcycles I have owned all had vacuum-operated petcocks.  None ever had a problem.  Some of those bikes were fairly old, too.  One had 80,000 miles on it.  No petcock malfunctions.  Ever.

Maybe Suzuki subcontracted the petcock contract to a fuel systems vendor that had unionized labor.



Simple answer, .....ignorance, brainwashing, and the suckers that fall for it all.
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Re: Fuel Starvation vs. Petcock
Reply #14 - 09/27/11 at 21:02:13
 

And, all you ignorant, brainwashed suckers out there on the list say ..... ??

Huh
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