SuzukiSavage.com - Stuck Petcock

Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12671 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #15 - 09/08/11 at 08:51:16 Putt putt putt putt putt putt putt putt putt (wait 18 years) putt putt putt putt putt putt putt putt putt putt ......
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verslagen1

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Re: Stuck Petcock
Reply #16 - 09/08/11 at 08:55:31

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 09/08/11 at 08:31:20:

I don't debate the splitting diaphragm thing as I have never had one go on me personally -- I'll leave that one for Serobot and Verslagen and the boys who have had one go dump fuel down the vac tube into the airbox and sump. Give you a clue though, Verslagen thinks fuel washing down the cylinder walls is a engine damage mode that he is willing to discuss as a serious possible failure mode ....

Gas washing down the cylinder lubricants is a serious issue, but my experience comes from leaving the choke on (1st knotch) and riding to work (25 miles at freeway speed) not as the PP crowd will have you believe.

I did have 1 petcock start to leak, or may have start to leak (1 drop in the vac line and it was replaced) I believe it was the '88 petcock. This was repaired with the kit that I found. I've pulled out the internal screen and inserted an aluminum tube for reserve and run a fuel filter.

I also have a '96 which never worked properly when I got it (05) anyway and replaced it with an '02 petcock. Always needed to run in reserve.

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Stuck Petcock
Reply #17 - 09/08/11 at 09:08:00

And Verslagen actually runs a descreened (modified) stock vac petcock on his new increased displacement high compression engine too -- so he exhibits his faith in the basic vac petcock design system in a meaningful fashion, by putting his new built hot-rod engine at total risk according to what he currently believes to be true.

Now if Routy is right and it is a "low vacuum level issue" -- would Verslagen possibly be at any risk asking for increased gas volume delivery to feed his new hot rod engine while running a cone air filter system (no stock filter intake restriction)?

hmmmmmmmm ....... Huh

mebbe, jest a little ??

Me, I think Verslagen has purposefully removed the failure modes he was initially concerned with the vac petcock system.

One by one he took them out ....

He removed the screen (which varnishes up over time) and he rebuilt the diaphragm (which gets old and stiff and eventually splits) and he runs a better grade of vac line which he periodically replaces to make sure he doesn't lose his suction to any silly vac tube leak.

And now, he just keeps a careful watch on things while he is winging it down the freeway at 85 mph.

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Serowbot

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Re: Stuck Petcock
Reply #18 - 09/08/11 at 10:06:48

My 97' leaked viciously when I bought it in '06... before I found this site...
Took me ages to figure it out on my own...

... an 04' I bought in 09' had a leaky one too...

... another one I bought, an '01 I think, had chewed up that ridiculous spring under the knob and was impossible to turn... it was stuck in the prime position...

I've put about 6 Raptors in Savages, including mine, Jerry's, and former member NickA's...

Can't remember how many I've bought and sold in total, (probably 8 or 10),... and four had bad petcocks... That's why the PO sold them, because they, or their mechanic, couldn't figure it out......

Them's bad odds... Huh

...

Google "vacuum petcock"... and you'll find a buttload of problems in many models of bike.... It's not unique to the Savage, or Suzuki...
It is unique to the vacuum operation...

I don't have to convince anyone that they go bad... new members have been coming here for years hunting for the solution to this baffling problem...
The problem is,.. so many of them have boogered up other things on their bikes while trying to fix it, before they figured it out...
You can do a lot of carb damage trying to fix a leaky petcock...
I'm trying to save them from that...
Always test your petcock, first... Wink

How to check your petcock,...

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txsizzler

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Re: Stuck Petcock
Reply #19 - 09/08/11 at 10:52:21

Serowbot wrote on 09/08/11 at 10:06:48:

Always test your petcock, first... Wink

How to check your petcock,...

Great write-up! That is the guide I used when checking my petcock. Sure enough, it was the culprit, and ordered my Raptor the next day.

Getting back to a statment Routy made, about if this was a problem, that Suzy would have fixed it a long time ago, if that were the case, and Suzuki was on top of these things, would they not also have addressed the VERY common Cam-Chain tensioner problem?

The way I see it, most manufacturers will not fix a problem, even if they are in full knowledge of it, until a LOT of publicity about the issue comes in play. Typically, it takes tragedy to make these changes occur. Unfortunate, but true.

Ian

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #20 - 09/08/11 at 10:57:16 This may be a problem they aren't allowed to fix. Serow, have you noticed where the premature failures mostly occur? Is it a case of severe temperatures?
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #21 - 09/08/11 at 10:58:21 Sea Foam in your gas helps your petcock work easier.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #22 - 09/08/11 at 11:03:26 Sea Foam keeps the screen from tarnishing.
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Re: Stuck Petcock
Reply #23 - 09/08/11 at 11:15:57

verslagen1 wrote on 09/08/11 at 10:57:16:

Serow, have you noticed where the premature failures mostly occur?
Is it a case of severe temperatures?

Not really... Exposed rubber (vac line)... drys out faster in heat, but the diaphragm is enclosed...
...maybe different regional fuel additives have some effect... but no unusual wear on carb gaskets here....
...most of the bikes I've personally dealt with were neglected, so perhaps old lacquered gas stiffens the rubber and causes rupture, but I suspect they sat because of the running problems... so, not likely...
No idea really... Huh

...

My personal experience is a higher than average failure rate, but,... I buy bikes that have been sidelined and neglected, to fix them back up... so problems come with the deal...
It is most often the petcock or plugged up carb that puts them there...

(next most often,... is intermittent contacts on kickstand/clutch cutout switches or connectors)... people think their ignition is dying and sell the bike...

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Re: Stuck Petcock
Reply #24 - 09/08/11 at 15:03:00

You have to wonder on the effects of 10% alcohol on the rubber compounds used in the petcock and the carb for those earlier bikes, because YOU KNOW DURN WELL they were never intended to sit in a bath of 10% alcohol constantly all the time like they do now.

Alcohol can cause swelling in some rubbers, which might help explain the tough to turn petcocks.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #25 - 09/08/11 at 15:25:27 Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 09/08/11 at 15:03:00: Alcohol can cause swelling in some rubbers, which might help explain the tough to turn petcocks. On the part that turns, there's no rubber. It's a hard plastic. The problem is that it's on a taper.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #26 - 09/08/11 at 15:28:57 Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 09/08/11 at 09:08:00: And now, he just keeps a careful watch on things while he is winging it down the freeway at 85 mph. Who? me? never
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ziggy YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 30	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #27 - 09/09/11 at 16:57:00 Thanks for all your responses.So besides petcocks and cam chain tensioner she bought a good bike. Shes happy and loves the new bike so ill spend a lot of time reading info on this forum this winter when we have 3' of snow and cant ride but right now the sun is shining and the riding is good. Thanks Ziggy
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Re: Stuck Petcock
Reply #28 - 09/09/11 at 17:01:21

Really, the Savage/S40 bikes are nearly bulletproof, minus the petcock/cam chain tensioner issues. Excellent for both the beginner or the experienced, and just plain fun to ride! Light weight, nimble, easy to work on, very little in the way of overhead costs, cheaply insured, gas misers, are all words that partly describe this great bike. She should be happy with it for a long, long time!

Ian

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Built2Last Serious Thumper Offline Tempt Fate Posts: 1447 FTF Gender:	Re: Stuck Petcock Reply #29 - 09/10/11 at 01:16:58 don't forget to change the O-ring when you change the oil... according to the manual. i thought i'd just add something to this topic.
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