SuzukiSavage.com - Torque woes...

blackhalo

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #15 - 06/29/11 at 12:43:31

The bike runs fairly well with the stock muffler... it's a little picky on startup, and the first 5 minutes of driving until it's warm...
it's especially worse when it's cold in the evenings (usually HOT and HUMID here at the beach).

But the AFTERMARKET exhaust doesn't have the same startup problems...
I use choke to start it, then turn it off almost immediately and start riding (within 60 seconds).

The thing runs like a champ right off the bat... like it's already warm.
But I want my power back!

Can someone explain these jet kits to me?
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_street/suzuki_650_LS650P_savage.htm

They don't look like "kits" (but that's what the website menu called them)... and I'm not sure what I should be buying...
I don't want to spend the money on Dynojet, because I want to experiment with Stages I-IV... Dynojet would cost me over $200 for all four stages!!!!

Just not sure what's included in a "kit"...
do I need to buy a different needle, etc?

P.S. @ Bubba: Is that the Custom Chrome 12" Drag Pipe baffle?
I notice the backpressure flange is unique, I might try one of those.
(loosely wrapping the baffle takes some of the edge off the bite, loud is good when it's a deep tone!!)

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Bubba Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 956 Denver, CO Gender:	Re: Torque woes... Reply #16 - 06/29/11 at 13:05:02 Nope it was a "DynaPower" brand I picked up on ebay. It's actually a double walled pipe and the tab and baffles are formed from the inner pipe. Not sure if it can be found anymore...
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blackhalo Junior Member Offline Pure Unadulterated Radness! Posts: 62 Bradenton, FL	Re: Torque woes... Reply #17 - 06/29/11 at 13:06:39 Check out the very top baffle in the image, looks similar: http://www.retrocycle.com/CustomChromeSku/11230/12_Drag_Pipe_Baffles.html
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Bubba Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 956 Denver, CO Gender:	Re: Torque woes... Reply #18 - 06/29/11 at 13:10:54 I think that might perform the same way. Somewhere out there in internetland I've seen where you can use a round washer welded to a bolt to create a "tuneable" straightpipe.
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blackhalo

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #19 - 06/29/11 at 15:25:19

Tunable straight pipe... I tried it...
actually, I just cut a slice into the baffle, then inserted a washer
(and then did that three more times along the length of the baffle),
it didn't really make much difference between 1 and 3.

The problem is, I think the STOCK muffler has a ton of backpressure (maybe even chambers)...
so one little washer isn't going to compare to the EPA crippled, coffee can maze that's likely inside the stock exhaust.

I mean, when I put my hand behind the stock muff... it's like a little "poot poot"...
there's pressure, but it's pretty minor... which makes me think there's some SERIOUS backpressure being created for this engine.

That would explain why even my DUAL baffle design is losing power...
it's STILL NOT ENOUGH backpressure to compensate for the original setup.

Maybe... Huh

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28642 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Torque woes... Reply #20 - 06/29/11 at 15:47:03 Give it up , and get a Dyna muffler... $20 bucks and the problem is solved... Torque will come back...... Info on choosing a Harley muffler is available here... Harley muffler guide...
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #21 - 06/29/11 at 17:18:25

Serowbot wrote on 06/29/11 at 15:47:03:

Give it up , and get a Dyna muffler... $20 bucks and the problem is solved...
Torque will come back... Wink

...

Info on choosing a Harley muffler is available here...
Harley muffler guide...

Yes,, like I said,, go with a known good exhaust system.. no one can help you while you have something no one has seen. &, Just like Counting the turns on an air fuel mixture screw so you can get back to square one if things dont go right, youve got to be able to UNDO your mods, when things dont go right, Things arent going right,,

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blackhalo Junior Member Offline Pure Unadulterated Radness! Posts: 62 Bradenton, FL	Re: Torque woes... Reply #22 - 06/30/11 at 01:18:34 Yeah, maybe...
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dasch

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #23 - 06/30/11 at 02:29:28

hey, hey, don't lose steam now, man! Wink

The stock muffler has chambers, of course. Gas goes all the way to the end, bounces off the end plate, tthen hrough a long pipe 2/3 length forward, then hit another plate... Something like that.
But as lots of us said, we swapped it for something else and did not lose all that much lowend, and it was fixed with slightly larger jets and raised needle.

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blackhalo

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #24 - 07/02/11 at 11:13:34

Hehe, I was just rethinking things...
I'm also doing a lot of other aesthetic work to this bike,
it's going bobber, with full tank removal, bars, etc.

The exhaust is turning into a bigger project than anticipated tho...
so I'm thinking now is not the time to be pulling the carb (over-and-over again),
there's other work to be done yet.

But, I STILL hate the stock muffler...
so I might actually grab a Dyna and try that out in the meantime.

Fyi, I just did another test run with a strongly packed exhaust...
so the backpressure is huge, there's only like a Nickel sized hole for escape...
no real difference, unfortunately.

First gear just feels weak, it tops out early and brings nothing to the table...
it's such a shame... because the rest of the powerband is pretty acceptable.

So close, yet so far. Sad

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #25 - 07/02/11 at 12:09:24

But, I STILL hate the stock muffler...

Well,, I cant say have great taste, but thats a good start,,

so I might actually grab a Dyna and try that out in the meantime.

Thats a cheap way to see what the bike Will do, with a decent muffler. & Theyre good lookin,,

I think youve effectively shoved a tater in yer tail pipe with all the baffling & packing,, its not breathing well at all,,

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blackhalo

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #26 - 07/02/11 at 12:32:37

That crossed my mind... but don't forget, I did build UP to this point...
I started with just the cam, then the straight pipe, then one baffle, then one baffle wrapped, then two baffles, etc, etc.

If I remember correctly, the low-end torque has been missing the entire process...
I always thought it would come back with the baffles, but it really hasn't.

I'm also reading info that implies I'm running rich with the aftermarket exhaust (backfiring, popping, etc)...
yet I'm at sea level, super hot / humid... how does that make any sense?

I haven't adjusted ANY mix, whatsoever...
it's all dealership settings... shouldn't it be lean?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Torque woes... Reply #27 - 07/02/11 at 12:35:17 Splain what you did with the cam... you mite want to find TDC & watch your valves,,
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blackhalo

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Re: Torque woes...
Reply #28 - 07/02/11 at 13:24:09

Did nothing with the cam...
just removed the exhaust, gave it a spin bare cam.
Yeah, that's loud!!

Also, this bike is like-new... 1200 miles, and half of that is me in the last few months.
It's from a dealer, it was serviced at 700 miles.. then into my hands, clean and new.
It shouldn't have any timing issues.

Anyway, I just went out a minute ago and removed one of the baffles...
now there's a little more torque, but it's still mostly gone...
and now it backfires hard with EVERY roll off (Sarasota, FL: 86 degrees, 68% humidity, 20ft elevation)

I actually got a little freaked out crossing the street,
because I can't rely on first gear to get me out of the way,
that's how weak it is (it's a rush to 2nd gear).

*sigh*

I like playing with this stuff... a pita, but still amusing...
it's just too bad I have to wait for the bike to cool down before I can make another change... very slow process.

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ralfyguy Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 932	Re: Torque woes... Reply #29 - 07/02/11 at 13:32:07 And every time you put the stock muffler back on the torque is back to normal?
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