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CalisOsin

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Uh-Oh
01/25/11 at 15:50:10

So let me start this by saying "yes, I'm an idiot for riding it when I knew there was something wrong" Let me be the example of what NOT to do.

Now that that's out of the way.... Some of you may remember me posting a video looking for help diagnosing a sound, and the general consensus was that the valves needed adjusting. No big deal, I pulled off the valve inspection covers and adjusted. It still ticked. I kept doing research and stayed off the bike for about a month. I couldn't figure it out so I (like an idiot) just kept riding. I thought maybe it was the cam chain tensioner, but was reminded of the errors in Clymers and that I may have adjusted wrong. I re-adjusted following the steps shown here and they were just slightly out of spec. Not enough IMO to make it rattle so I pulled the crank case cover and my tensioner definitely needed to be replaced. I ordered one from Verslagen and ... kept riding. Well yesterday(on my way home from the post office with my new tensioner) I finally found out the hard way what the error was. The pictures really speak for themselves....

and they are on page 2

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« Last Edit: 05/05/11 at 09:28:25 by CalisOsin »

'97, k&n airfilter, bcb pipe, custom leather seat, monoshock, custom bars

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #1 - 01/25/11 at 16:20:33 Pretty hard to see that one coming..danged shame, too.
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MotoBuddha Serious Thumper Offline Let's roll! Posts: 1416 Charlotte, NC	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #2 - 01/25/11 at 16:43:56 OW! Ow ow ow ow ow OW! (I wonder what I'll find when I pull my top end. The bike fired and ran very roughly when the PO showed me it ran. With all the other signs of neglect I've discovered, an eaten valve wouldn't surprise me.)
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #3 - 01/25/11 at 16:52:37 Wouldnt run a lick with a dropped valve, no compression, on top of a multitude of other things that would keep it from running,.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #4 - 01/25/11 at 17:25:06 Ouch! I don't like seeing that. So the tick must've been the valve hanging up. In the picture, it's pretty oily north and south. Did that happen durring disassembly? or while running?
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Boule’tard Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Master of the Obvious Posts: 1620 Austin TX Gender:	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #5 - 01/25/11 at 17:36:46 I was gonna say the tensioner is so far out it jumped time on you.. but that does not explain the oil caked on the combustion dome. Looks like two problems, one you avoided and one you didn't.
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CalisOsin

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Re: Uh-Oh
Reply #6 - 01/25/11 at 17:51:25

The oil caked in there had to be from running it, because I drained the oil before opening her up. And I didn't get a chance to fix the cam chain tensioner since it blew on my way home.

Question for you guys though. If I put a wrench on the alternator rotor bolt and turn counterclockwise and the piston moves up and down inside the cylinder, is it possible the connecting rod and bearing are ok? Im trying to weigh my options for my next step. If you guys have any suggestions... I've got plenty of time to listen.

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Boule’tard Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Master of the Obvious Posts: 1620 Austin TX Gender:	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #7 - 01/25/11 at 18:07:00 Sure it's possible, but a better way to evaluate it is to check for slop in the lower bearing once the cylinder's off. Since the piston must go, might as well replace the piston pin too, it is only about 15 bucks. How's the bore? If it got scuffed, this could be a good excuse to rebore and go with a bigger or hi comp piston.
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james may

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Re: Uh-Oh
Reply #8 - 01/25/11 at 21:36:13

Boule’tard wrote on 01/25/11 at 18:07:00:

Sure it's possible, but a better way to evaluate it is to check for slop in the lower bearing once the cylinder's off. Since the piston must go, might as well replace the piston pin too, it is only about 15 bucks.

How's the bore? If it got scuffed, this could be a good excuse to rebore and go with a bigger or hi comp piston.

+1 If your not going to scrap it, I'd rebuild the engine bigger and better than before with an oversized piston and a full rebuild kit, including all the top end stuff and machine work on the cylinder head. Since it's going to cost you a bunch of work and money anyways alittle more money will get you a bad ass and reliable savage.

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MrThud

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Re: Uh-Oh
Reply #9 - 01/26/11 at 01:24:35

Did it lock solid when you were riding?
Looks like it could have been a pretty nasty experience..
As said above it looks like the chain ended up slipping due to the tensioner and that would have ultimately resulted in the piston coming up with a valve still open.

What happened to the valve stem, I guess you removed that on disassembly and it was still held in place with the collars?
(i.e. you didnt also drop a valve right?)

Man thanks for sharing the pics and story. Hope you source another engine cheap mate. Good Luck.

One of the Savages I have, also came to me in bits after the same problem you have experienced. But I cant find a spare engine here in Australia and the previous owner threw away the head, Cam and barrels et.c.. So a rebuild isnt feasible.

Looks that LS650s are thankfully popular over there so hopefully you can get decent spares cheap

...Note to self.. Make sure to order the modified tensioner!!!!

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CalisOsin

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Re: Uh-Oh
Reply #10 - 01/26/11 at 07:13:32

@ Boule'tard - I was definitely going to check it, not leave it to chance, I just wasn't sure of what I should look for when checking it. I am considering boring it out and a larger piston, right now i'm just weighing the options. I'm told if you can feel the scoring inside the cylinder with your finger, it needs to be honed at the least, and I can feel it.

@ james may - I'd love to be able to drop a bunch of money into this and do a bunch of mods since it's down anyway, unfortunately this was my only means of transport so if I can't fix this fast and cheap, my money has to go towards a new vehicle (probably just a beater to get me to and fro)

@ MrThud - it didn't lock up (thank goodness). I just heard a snap and the bike shut off. It kept right on rolling until I could make it safely to the side of the road. The chain may have slipped, but it was still on when I took everything apart. Also due to the tapping I was hearing for a while, I think it was the valve the whole time.The valve stem was still in place, but the valve is lodged into the piston.

So, my next few questions... who here has bored out the cylinder, what piston did you use, and how much did it cost you?

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Boule’tard

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Re: Uh-Oh
Reply #11 - 01/26/11 at 07:45:18

Wiseco offers 95, 96 and 97mm pistons that come with the rings and wristpin for about 150 bucks. Also, check with Lancer on here, he may have something cheaper or better for the same money.. and is also knowledgeable about reboring and Nikasil lining cylinders. I think the minimum you could get away with is a light hone with a bottle brush, assuming the scoring can be felt but not seen.

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MotoBuddha

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Re: Uh-Oh
Reply #12 - 01/26/11 at 08:41:24

CalisOsin wrote on 01/26/11 at 07:13:32:

I'd love to be able to drop a bunch of money into this and do a bunch of mods since it's down anyway, unfortunately this was my only means of transport so if I can't fix this fast and cheap...

I sincerely wish you the best in trying to repair it without breaking your bank.

There's an entire engine on eBay for $500. Seems like you'd pay at least that much scrounging parts from various sources, unless there's a generous benefactor out there. It would also be the fastest solution. It's what I would do in your situation, but only you can judge whether that's the way to go.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #13 - 01/26/11 at 08:47:52 I really believe people should use something like Sea Foam in their oil and gas to keep the engine clean.
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CalisOsin Senior Member Offline Rather die, than live down on my knees. Posts: 297 Orange County, Ca Gender:	Re: Uh-Oh Reply #14 - 01/26/11 at 08:56:36 @MotoBuddha - I think I saw the one you were referring to, but it was also $200 for shipping, and while that probably would work out best, I don't have an extra $700 laying around at the moment. @bill67 - Do you work for Sea Foam? I agree the stuff is good, and have used it in the past, I just don't see the relevance to this post....
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