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Starter Gear Upgrade (Read 3301 times)
verslagen1
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Starter Gear Upgrade
11/04/10 at 16:01:10
 
So after several stories of newbes getting shafted and a couple of questions and many "don't buy pre'96" and quite frankly getting a couple of them pretty darn cheap... I decided to look into upgrading the starter gears.   Shocked


Pre'95's don't have a starter torque limiting clutch.  So what happens is on shut down the engine kicks back on the last rev.  This will engage the one way clutch and bust out the mounting of either the gears or the starter.  Not something that can be easily fixed.   :'(

But, as it turns out easily prevented.  All '96's and later have a torque limiter gear that releases the torque before it blows out the mounts.  So how do you get those gears on the old bikes?  Simple, buy the torque limiter, a '96 or later idler gear and stator cover.  And the darn thing just bolts in.

Here's the stock gears in a '88 case...


And the new gears in a '88 case...


The torque limiter is quite a bit taller than the '88 spur gear.
And the mating idle gear is the same as an '88.
The '96 and later cases machined to fit, but you could rework the old case I've been told.
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« Last Edit: 01/23/14 at 19:06:35 by verslagen1 »  

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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #1 - 01/15/11 at 18:15:52
 
Yes you can make the case cover work with the larger gear. This case is from a 1986 savage.

One tip, getting the gear to fit can be snug but if you line up the notch in the rotor (circled in red) with where the gear fits into the case it will slide right in.



I took out about 1/2 inch of material and drilled out the hole, slowly. I kept checking the fit and making sure the gear wouldn't bind and everything would turn freely.



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« Last Edit: 02/21/14 at 22:56:20 by verslagen1 »  
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greenmonster
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #2 - 01/20/11 at 13:31:07
 
Do you need to upgrade the idler gear as well, or will it work with the stock idler gear?
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #3 - 01/20/11 at 13:51:53
 
greenmonster wrote on 01/20/11 at 13:31:07:
Do you need to upgrade the idler gear as well, or will it work with the stock idler gear?


I didn't upgrade the idler gear. Just the torque limiter gear.
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stoner
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #4 - 02/17/11 at 04:20:21
 
There is another option I elected to go with for my wives 86.  The orginial engine had the the case broken when it kicked back on shut down.  Picked up a used engine on Ebay, but did not want the same thing to happen again.  I found a guy in Germany (I am alsmost sure it was through this site who put me onto the German Savage site) who makes an electronic device that you just clip into your wiring harness.  What the device does is that when you hit the kill switch on shutdown, it engages the decompression selnoid which opens the exhust valve (just like on start up) for a few seconds to allow the compression of the engine to be bled off so it doesn't build up and do the kick back which rips out the gears.  the item comes encased in a small length of garden hose ( 2in) and has the wires sticking out with detailed instructions.  Had it installed in under 10 mins; fits under the gas tank.  Have had it on now since 2006 and it works great.  When you hit the kill switch you can hear the selnoid being engaged.  Cost I think was around $70.00 Cdn, but is money well spent.  Still have the guys address if anyone is interested. Can take pics of the install if anyone wishes.

Stoner
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Flemming from Denmark
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #5 - 02/19/11 at 15:00:32
 
Stoner << Would like to have his adress, and also pic's off yours. Made one  myself once by a German diagram. But it after a while it started to engage (Open the valves) when I was driving. Not good - and I could not find the reason. Something with the large capacitor would be my guess
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fsmidt
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #6 - 02/20/11 at 12:26:17
 
take a look at the dutch savage forum.
several years ago i bought 2 modules from gerd out of germany.
one got to hot and melted down.
after dissambling the module from its silicon kit, i made pictures and how to assembly.

http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=25.html

look on the 2nd page open the pictures stap1.jpg till stap12.jpg

buy the components and start to solder,i`m not a genius in soldering but managed to make a working piece.
language is dutch but pictures are clear.
maybey someone overhere who can make an better howto in english.(oldfeller makes beautifull ones Smiley  )
if something is not clear you always can ask me.
send me a mail, i`m not daily in this forum.
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Fujisawa Rob
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #7 - 04/11/11 at 06:59:34
 
stoner wrote on 02/17/11 at 04:20:21:
There is another option I elected to go with for my wives 86.  The orginial engine had the the case broken when it kicked back on shut down.  Picked up a used engine on Ebay, but did not want the same thing to happen again.  I found a guy in Germany (I am alsmost sure it was through this site who put me onto the German Savage site) who makes an electronic device that you just clip into your wiring harness.  What the device does is that when you hit the kill switch on shutdown, it engages the decompression selnoid which opens the exhust valve (just like on start up) for a few seconds to allow the compression of the engine to be bled off so it doesn't build up and do the kick back which rips out the gears.  the item comes encased in a small length of garden hose ( 2in) and has the wires sticking out with detailed instructions.  Had it installed in under 10 mins; fits under the gas tank.  Have had it on now since 2006 and it works great.  When you hit the kill switch you can hear the selnoid being engaged.  Cost I think was around $70.00 Cdn, but is money well spent.  Still have the guys address if anyone is interested. Can take pics of the install if anyone wishes.

Stoner    


So it opens the comp valve for a few seconds then kills the ignition? Could you rig a manual switch to do the same thing?

I'm good with soldering, and could probably duplicate based on the diagram, but it seems like it would be easier to find the gear and the case, or mod my case.
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86 Savage LS650 (no name yet Wink ) - new commuter- odo claims 14k
89 Isuzu Trooper V6 "Beniko" - spun bearing at 233k
89 Lincoln Town Car "Lucretia" - foul weather ride - 133k
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Fujisawa Rob
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #8 - 04/11/11 at 07:49:00
 
Part # for limiter appears to be 12600-24B01.

About $130 new!

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86 Savage LS650 (no name yet Wink ) - new commuter- odo claims 14k
89 Isuzu Trooper V6 "Beniko" - spun bearing at 233k
89 Lincoln Town Car "Lucretia" - foul weather ride - 133k
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verslagen1
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #9 - 04/15/11 at 09:03:02
 
Fujisawa Rob wrote on 04/11/11 at 07:49:00:
Part # for limiter appears to be 12600-24B01.

About $130 new!



You can find it on fleabay for $100 less.
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #10 - 05/31/11 at 05:42:02
 
You said:
Pre'96's don't have a starter torque limiting clutch.  So what happens is on shut down the engine kicks back on the last rev.  This will engage the one way clutch and bust out the mounting of either the gears or the starter.  Not something that can be easily fixed.

if this has happened...how can it be fixed? Sad





Corrected year -v1
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« Last Edit: 01/23/14 at 19:09:17 by verslagen1 »  
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Oldfeller
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #11 - 05/31/11 at 06:40:36
 

Theoretically?

A tig welder and a machinist.



Practically?

The full split the cases tear down plus cost of welding/machining repairs is more than a used engine would cost.
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(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #12 - 09/27/11 at 05:40:56
 
Thanks a ton! No wonder I couldn't find it! Buying it now.  Do I also need the idler?  I saw dvansyck didn't replace it, and I guess it worked well for him.

I may go the machining route on the cover because I have access to a mill at work and It looks like the case is aluminum.  I'll take hard measurements of what needs to be removed unless someone has that already (dvansyck said .5in).  Is there any issue with removing too much?  Are those posts I'd be shortening helping hold the gear in?
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verslagen1
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #13 - 09/27/11 at 07:25:39
 
I'd measure the difference in the gears for myself.
remember there's supposed to be washers on either side of that gear.

And I do think it's the same idle gear for any year.
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Re: Starter Gear Upgrade
Reply #14 - 10/06/11 at 11:24:52
 
Ive got all the schematics needed to make the electronic fix.

Ill source the parts and see how much they cost. I work for a consumer electronics company as a Engineer/Tech, and solder daily. After i have the components, it shouldn't take me very long to make this.
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