Oldfeller, you might want to be real careful. Bill67 just took great pains to inform me his username is bill67, not Bill. I'd hate to have you offend him.

As you know and we on a four-stroke forum tend to forget, there are considerable differences in the oil needs of two- and four-stroke engines. Oil for the two-stroke doesn't need a dispersant package, nor an acid-fighting package, nor an anti-oxidant package, because it goes in, lubes the engine, sort-of burns, and exits. It is one-pass lubrication, pretty much. It does need a solvent package to keep it mixed with the fuel when used as a pre-mix. The two-stroke literally gets an oil change every time it turns over. Be it noted that the two-stroke motorcycle does have a transmission, and a clutch, and those need  oil. That oil does not have to withstand combustion by-products, but they usually use an ordinary motor oil anyway.

I rather doubt that any brand of oil is greatly superior to any other. They are all designed to do pretty much the same job, using the same available ingredients. And generally speaking, no modern oil needs any after-market additives to do its job.

Motorcyclists like to think the engines on their bikes are very demanding - even finicky - about their oils. Especially the air-cooled ones. But I suspect the ordinary Briggs & Stratton on the ordinary lawn mower has a more demanding job, running as it does wide-open for hours under a considerable load down low in the dirt and dust. Those engines use gear driven camshafts (same gear shearing load on the oil as a transmission) and sliding cam followers just like the Savage. The only truly special item on the motorcycle is the wet clutch. I can't help but wonder whether the wet clutch should be segregated away from the engine oil and run in a bath of ATF.

Few if any 4 stroke engines will run at WOT (no sp limiter) for 20 minutes, no matter what kind of oil is in it ! If you don't believe it, try it.

My daughter's Savage went through at least 3 previous owners when we got it at 11,500 miles. Maintenance history was a mystery. I suspect the maintenance was not that good as the clutch was on its way out due to use of an energy-conserving oil. At 12,400 miles the cam chain adjuster was out 19.5 mm and we did the VerSlavy mod.

I've got a couple of questions for you, bill67: Have you used Klotz from the beginning? How does your cam chain adjuster extension compare to ours? Have you had to VerSlavy it yet? Thanks for responding.

I will confirm that higher mileage Savages use oil. At 15K+ miles it's using it at the rate of 1 quart/1500 miles. There are no leaks and no visible smoke out the exhaust.  I just keep topping it off. With this rate of consumption I'm going to push my oil change interval to 3750 miles per the owners manual as it's getting a continual supply of fresh oil (does that make it a 3-stroke engine?). By comparison my Bandit uses maybe .3 quart/2500 miles.

Routy wrote on 08/16/10 at 06:39:33:

I'm talking about 2 cycle snowmobile.

Almost 3 year

Buck I don't think you read bill's reply's.
He's done 5,000 miles in 3 years, and has 6k total.
3 years from now he'll have 11k, 6 years, 16k, 9 years, 21k.
In 15 years, bill may have a great testimonial for klotz.

And I don't get your second point, I have a '96 with 46k and an '88 with it's second engine from a like miled 'o2.  What did I pay for both? $2000.  I wasn't committed to Syn oil until late in the '96's life.  both have verslavies.  At this point, I would recommend new cam chains at 50k.  Theres no sense to stretching it further.  unless you got a super SS chain.

By his own words, Bill has NEVER even adjusted his valves and he never works on his bike to perform mods, etc.  

He rides it less than 2,000 miles a year because he has a really very short riding year up there in the Great Lakes area, that I can certainly understand.

So, I doubt you are gonna get any usable comparative wear information from Bill ever because as he has said he runs them until they get funky acting then he sells them.

Considering this world view, buying the very most expensive best premium oil he can find and "trusting" it to give him minimal wear is all Bill can do for his bike, so he's a doing it.


But to claim "zero wear" on a bike you've never even worked on is a bit much --- how would you ever know?


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Roll Bill's bike back in your mind to this level of use -- he's still running his original rear tire.  Hey, he may even still have his stock brake pads on the front wheel.  

His bike is still a puppy.

At that age level my bike didn't use any oil either, not for another 5,000 miles on top of that.