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verslagen1

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Re: oil??
Reply #30 - 08/14/10 at 15:03:21

So far rotsyn is as good as mobil1 (20w50) or klotz (15w50) in the heat.
I ran rotsyn (5w40) all winter long and when I could keep it under 70, there was no appreciable usage (adjusted for leakage).
Now that summer is here, it seems that critical speed is lower.
I do have enough klotz to last the summer, so I'm going to wring every extra buck out it that I spent.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: oil?? Reply #31 - 08/14/10 at 15:54:41 Vers a couple of weeks ago you said you were going to test mobil 1 and klotz and now you say you have tested them
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: oil?? Reply #32 - 08/14/10 at 16:07:26 bill67 wrote on 08/14/10 at 15:54:41: Vers a couple of weeks ago you said you were going to test mobil 1 and klotz and now you say you have tested them and your point is?
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: oil?? Reply #33 - 08/14/10 at 16:15:04 You haven't even tried Mobil or Klotz
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: oil?? Reply #34 - 08/14/10 at 16:18:11 And Charon don't have the any idea what Sea Foam is for.
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verslagen1

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Re: oil??
Reply #35 - 08/14/10 at 16:35:44

bill67 wrote on 08/14/10 at 16:15:04:

You haven't even tried Mobil or Klotz

as far as mobil1 goes... try to remember back... way back for you... in the last week... remember we talked about clutch slippage w/suv oil
but true m/c mobil1 was tried last year, near the end of summer.
this year, klotz, same salad oil and english drippings you use.

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bill67

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Re: oil??
Reply #36 - 08/14/10 at 16:55:53

Charon wrote on 08/14/10 at 14:32:31:

Verslagen, I have been trying to devise some objective method to test Sea Foam for some time. I knew going in the carbs on my bikes were pretty clean, but Bill insisted I'd know what running right was really all about (I have forgotten his exact phraseology and don't care enough to try to look it up). By the way, I figure to put what is left of the Sea Foam in my lawn mowers, one of which has about 450 hours and the other of which has about 350.

My thought for a test mule would be a bike with multiple carbs. Plumb it so half of the carbs feed from the main tank. Mount a pony tank somewhere else (handlebars, rear seat, wherever) and plumb it to the other carbs. Fill one tank with fresh clean gasoline, and the other tank with Sea Foam and gasoline. Then see if any differences could be identified.

charon what are you going to do when the side with the Sea Foam starts running a lot faster than the other side.

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Re: oil??
Reply #37 - 08/15/10 at 07:54:46

Result #1 = OIL CONSUMPTION

So far rotsyn is as good as mobil1 (20w50) or klotz (15w50) in the heat.
I ran rotsyn (5w40) all winter long and when I could keep it under 70, there was no appreciable usage (adjusted for leakage).

Now that summer is here, it seems that critical speed is lower.

=======================================

Now, what does this actually mean to a normal Savage owner?

FACT: Higher mileage Savages use oil when run at higher speeds.
(running on the interstate or showing your arse in the mountains)

What oil you use really doesn't seem to affect this oil usage amount. There is some evidence that the Rotella products stick around pretty good until you get 1,000 miles on a crankcase load, then it begins to exit just like any other oil -- no magic advantage here for either Rotella or Klotz as far as oil usage goes.

Rotella/Klotz RESULT = SAME SAME (no advantage either way)

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: oil?? Reply #38 - 08/15/10 at 08:32:03 vers never even tested Klotz Hes all Bull Sh!t When amsoil compare their oil to other oils they never test Klotz there must be a reason.
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: oil??
Reply #39 - 08/15/10 at 09:24:18

There is some evidence that the Rotella products stick around pretty good until you get 1,000 miles on a crankcase load, then it begins to exit just like any other oil --

This is what Ive found. It usually starts needing oil added more & more often till I change it. Hard to say just what mileage it is when its time to change, since I dont go by the odometer. I just watch how the oil consumption is going. I know when its time for fresh oil.

Bill, calling someone a liar can work out to a bad end. I know I am offended that you would call him a liar. IOW,, you need to retract & appologize or risk , not being labeled a liar, but an A55hole of the first order. You dont really want people here all teaming up & hating on ya, now do ya? YOu can disagree all you want, but accusing him of not actually running atest he says hes run? KNowing all the things hes done? Id say youre exhibiting some very poor judgement. I hope you reethink it.

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Re: oil??
Reply #40 - 08/15/10 at 09:26:49

Bill,

Actually, I think he's being understated and kind.

I know I am, not claiming any form of victory here, just SAME SAME.

In truth, that is the truth.

High mileage Savages use oil

Low mileage Savages really don't use a lot of oil, but that will come with some age I think

So far there is no advantage noted for anybody's oil as far as usage goes, if yours uses oil it will continue to do so no matter which color or flavor your oil is ....

No magic bullets here for oil consumption for anybody

No loss

No win

Just same same

==============================

Now the odds of me exaggerating any claims for Rotella products SUCK, they would get shot down in a hurry as LOTS of people here use the stuff.

If I make a statement like "it hangs around pretty good for the first 1,000 miles then it starts to exit like any other oil" then I expect to either get an immediate "amen brother" or a call of bullshit from a whole host of people, including Charon BECAUSE THEY USE THE STUFF all the time.

I will tell the simple truth about Rotella -- I gots no choice.

So I can say I'll be fair with ya -- 'cause once again I gots absolutely no choice but to be fair.

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Re: oil??
Reply #41 - 08/15/10 at 09:47:00

Why do oils stick around better when they are new?

The polymerization chains are uniform and new, full length and undamaged

The coils of the "can of snakes" that is oil are at full length and are not chopped up at all yet

=========================

When the engine and transmission run, the coils get slowly cut up and broken by crush loads and shear loads (think of the gears rolling into and out of engagement)

The longer this goes on, the more chopped up the coils become

The oil also gets combustion products in it

The oil guys refer to this as "initial viscosity loss" and they chart it in their oil comparison tests. The chopping up action is also referred to as "shear loss".

All oils lose viscosity over time until they finally reach a steady state and then they just hang in there at about the same number until changed.

But the concept explains (good enough for me, anyway) why brand new oil sticks around better than well used oil does

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verslagen1

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Re: oil??
Reply #42 - 08/15/10 at 09:47:48

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/15/10 at 09:24:18:

Bill, calling someone a liar can work out to a bad end. I know I am offended that you would call him a liar. IOW,, you need to retract & appologize or risk , not being labeled a liar, but an A55hole of the first order. You dont really want people here all teaming up & hating on ya, now do ya? YOu can disagree all you want, but accusing him of not actually running atest he says hes run? KNowing all the things hes done? Id say youre exhibiting some very poor judgement. I hope you reethink it.

it's too late, the jury is already in on that one.

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babyhog Serious Thumper Offline Find a Cure for Breast Cancer! NOW!! Posts: 3802 WV Gender:	Re: oil?? Reply #43 - 08/15/10 at 12:56:44 Poor bill, loves his Klotz, we all know that. What I want to know is has he ever used anything else?
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: oil?? Reply #44 - 08/15/10 at 13:11:22 Yes I have,Suzuki oil,Mobil1 motorcycle and regular Mobil 1 in motorcycles,Honda motorcycle oil,I do think Klotz is the best, motor quieter,Shifts smoother, Runs cooler.First used their 2 cycle in snowmobiles and 2 cycle motorcycles,1st used it in 1971.
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