SuzukiSavage.com - Float Charger

rl153 Serious Thumper Offline S40 Just right! Posts: 906 Bloomfield,CT Gender:	Float Charger 10/23/09 at 12:41:11 I broke down finally and bought a float charger for my battery .The battery is a yuasa yb14l-b2, yumicron. It has battery caps .Do I have to loosen the battery caps when using the float charger all winter ? Thanks.
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #1 - 10/23/09 at 17:21:30

Since its only maintaining the charge on an already charged battery, I dont think so. Its no more of a charger than the alternator, IMO, tho someone may come along & make me feel stewpid, Embarrassed

. You should go check the water once in a while. It would be easier to keep an eye on it if you pulled it out so you could run a light behind it & check the H2O level in each cell. The holes are so small in the top, I dont think theres a hydrometer that'll even go in it.
Just make sure it starts off fully charged & full of H2O.

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Routy Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2280 Winston Oregon Gender:	Re: Float Charger Reply #2 - 10/23/09 at 17:21:58 Absolutely not ! Caps should never be loosened or removed using any kind of charger, or no matter what the state of charge the battery is. Where that myth came from, nobody knows.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Float Charger Reply #3 - 10/23/09 at 18:07:38 What happens if you remove them or loosen them.
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Gort

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #4 - 10/23/09 at 18:29:12

If your battery does not have a pressure release vent tube, you must remove the caps while charging. In any sulfuric acid/water battery, using a charger increases the battery's temperature and thus causes the electrolytic solution to expand, thus needing an escape route for the pressure. If your battery does not already have one, then the caps need to come off. I have a float charger and it says to take the caps off. Your alternator will not cause this need for pressure release to happen.

Here is a link to one of many instruction sheets for float chargers, telling you to take the caps off:

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/42000-42999/42292.PDF

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Routy

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #5 - 10/23/09 at 21:43:21

bill67 wrote on 10/23/09 at 18:07:38:

What happens if you remove them or loosen them.

Well, I guess nothing much, except while charging, acid will splatter all over the top of the battery, more water/electrolyte will dissapate into the atmosphere, wewakening the battery solution, and thats if it doesn't explode first from a stray spark getting near it. Thats why they do make special battery hydrocaps that are safer, and keeps the water returning to the battery.

I really was surprised to see that the myth of removing caps got carried over to a charger MFG. Most all sites say to leave caps in place for the common sense reasons, which includes the safety of it all if nothing else. I myself have seen many batteries explode, many for no apparent reason, many spark related.
Below, just one site that says it, among other things.
In reality, there is no reason to ever remove them except to test or add water. Removing them to relieve pressure, is absurd at best. Every lead acid battery has vents,.....every one.

Battery sales and service - Voltex Battery Inc.Charging Tips: Leave vent caps in place while charging. ... Otherwise a dangerous explosion can occur. Never leave a battery on a trickle charger longer than 48 ... Carefully remove old battery, disconnecting the ground cable first, ...
www.voltex.com/battery_care2.htm - Cached - Similar -

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Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)

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Routy

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #6 - 10/23/09 at 21:49:17

Every lead acid battery has a vent.....EVERY one. The caps ARE the vents, or else it has a vent tube Shocked

There is absolutely no good reason to remove caps except for testing or filling. The MFG saying to remove them, is creating a dangerous situation,.....believe it.
Arthur wrote on 10/23/09 at 18:29:12:

If your battery does not have a pressure release vent tube, you must remove the caps while charging. In any sulfuric acid/water battery, using a charger increases the battery's temperature and thus causes the electrolytic solution to expand, thus needing an escape route for the pressure. If your battery does not already have one, then the caps need to come off. I have a float charger and it says to take the caps off. Your alternator will not cause this need for pressure release to happen.

Here is a link to one of many instruction sheets for float chargers, telling you to take the caps off:

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/42000-42999/42292.PDF

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Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Float Charger Reply #7 - 10/23/09 at 22:14:00 & carelessly ( OR intentionally, gasses dont care from whence a spark comes) allowing sparks from a grinder to come too close to the vent tube, even with the engine off for hours & hours, will blow yo Bat TREE The crappity smack UP! PLease, dont axe me how I know..
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Gort

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #8 - 10/24/09 at 09:10:19

Routy wrote on 10/23/09 at 21:49:17:

Every lead acid battery has a vent.....EVERY one. The caps ARE the vents, or else it has a vent tube Shocked

There is absolutely no good reason to remove caps except for testing or filling. The MFG saying to remove them, is creating a dangerous situation,.....believe it.
Arthur wrote on 10/23/09 at 18:29:12:

If your battery does not have a pressure release vent tube, you must remove the caps while charging. In any sulfuric acid/water battery, using a charger increases the battery's temperature and thus causes the electrolytic solution to expand, thus needing an escape route for the pressure. If your battery does not already have one, then the caps need to come off. I have a float charger and it says to take the caps off. Your alternator will not cause this need for pressure release to happen.

Here is a link to one of many instruction sheets for float chargers, telling you to take the caps off:

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/42000-42999/42292.PDF

They are vented but not ALL sufficiently enough to allow the escape of pressure from exterior chargers. They are all vented for normal use in an automobile, because the automobile engine compartment and outside air temps will expand and contract the battery, thus requiring nominal venting. Charging with a charger is a whole different process, and can cause the electrolyte to heat up to the point of bubbling. As for the danger of fires or explosion from fumes vented to the atmosphere while charging, thats why you don't do it near sparks or in closed areas, and if you do, the easily avoidable resulting problems are of your own careless making. Battery casings have buckled and split open from exterior chargers that have had their caps left on while charging.

Batteries vary as to the manufacturers' recommendations as the whether or not the caps should be removed. This has to do with the amount of venting provided in the battery. Since member RL153 asks should he remove his caps, he obviously does not know what his battery manufacturer advises. I doubt that anyone keeps his instructions for the battery he now has, so for safety reasons it must be assumed that you don't know. Leaving the caps on batteries that are not sufficiently vented for exterior charging can cause casing failure from expansion. Whether or not you remove the caps, the gases when heated from charging are going to expand and vent out into the atmosphere one way or the other, which is why you need to follow the, 'no sparks or open flames, well vented area', safety precautions anyway. Since most people do not know what kind of venting system their battery manufacturer has designed for his battery, and since many battery manufacturers tell you to remove their caps while using a battery charger, where is the wisdom in leaving the caps on?

Here is a small sampling of links that either tell you to take the caps off, or that tell you to: "FOLLOW THE BATTERY MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS AS TO WHETHER OR NOT TO TAKE THE CAPS OFF":

http://www.chargingchargers.com/manuals/lil-pro-manual.pdf

http://www.pulsetech.net/PulseTechnology/BatterySafety_PPC.pdf

http://www.marinco.com/files/support/products/manuals/729642.pdf

http://www.dualpro.com/media/pdf/14%20Certified%20Reconditioned%20Eagle%20Per...

http://www.gemplers.com/docs/manual/145745MANUAL.pdf

http://www.ossa.com/documents/Batterycharging_001.pdf

http://www.freestart.co.za/catalogue/pg1.pdf

http://www.associatedequip.com/pdf/manuals/6065.pdf

http://www.donrowe.com/user_guides/duracell/duracell_25_charger.pdf

http://ecee.colorado.edu/~ecen4517/components/US3300_en.pdf

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19360946/Section-08Aa-Battery-Ewj8Aa

http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14273/css/14273_36.htm

http://blog.batteryweb.com/blogroll/you-got-charging-questions-we-got-the-ans...

http://www.kuryakyn.com/documents/installation/4200-21HD-0705.pdf

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« Last Edit: 10/24/09 at 11:22:55 by Arthur »

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rl153 Serious Thumper Offline S40 Just right! Posts: 906 Bloomfield,CT Gender:	Re: Float Charger Reply #9 - 10/24/09 at 12:16:07 When charging conventional batteries, loosen vent caps and ventilate charging area. A buildup of hydrogen and oxygen in the battery or in the charging area can create an explosion hazard. From yuasa website. Apparently ,they recommend neither taking them off altogether or leaving them tight . Makes sense to me.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Float Charger Reply #10 - 10/24/09 at 12:34:54 Thats good to know I've been doing it right all theses years
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Float Charger Reply #11 - 10/24/09 at 12:42:41 Yet, no one seems to want to talk about the low charge rate of a float charger. IS IT or IS IT NOT less than or equal to what an alternator does? IF it is, then shouldnt I stop & pull the caps when the regulator fires the alternator up?
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Gort

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #12 - 10/24/09 at 13:39:23

I could only find this about the difference between a charger and an alternator. Without supporting links, all you are going to get is unprovable opinions.

(I copied this from another board):
"An alternator does not "recharge" a battery. When the engine is cranked, the alternator provides a saturation charge, but it will only restore the battery to roughly where it was pre-crank. An alternator is not a battery charger."

And:

http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/function.html

However, lacking a clear provable answer, the only safe course is to follow the instructions and warnings of a float charger's manufacturer:

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/42000-42999/42292.PDF

My BeeBe motorcycle battery float charger does not have its instructions on the 'net for me to provide a link, but they state," Remove the filler caps to prevent gas build up inside the battery. Too much gas build up could cause the battery to burst". My Beebe's output is 12VDC @ 500mA.

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Routy

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #13 - 10/24/09 at 14:04:26

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/24/09 at 12:42:41:

Yet, no one seems to want to talk about the low charge rate of a float charger. IS IT or IS IT NOT less than or equal to what an alternator does? IF it is, then shouldnt I stop & pull the caps when the regulator fires the alternator up?

I'm glad you at least put some thought into a subject before you post.
You are exactly right.

1st- There isn't a battery charger out there that puts out more than 40 amps, and most times you will never see more than 30 amp out of it.

2nd- There ain't an automotive alternator out there that puts out less than 60 amps. So don't be telling me that a portable battery charger is going to build up more pressure in a battery than what an alternator puts out. No I ain't even lookin for no websites to back that up, but if a person has even the slightest knowledge about automotive batteries and charging, that along w/ a wee bit of common sense should be enough.

And as far as an alternator not fully charging a battery, from stone dead I mite add, believe it if you want to, but I'm tellin you that all automotive batteries get fully charged every day just by driving down the road, if not there would be millions of dead batteries all over the country. Please, quit the websites, and use a little of your God given common sense.

Thats it, believe what you want to,....take all the caps off all your batteries that your heart desires,... I'm outta here !

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Rich
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Gort

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Re: Float Charger
Reply #14 - 10/24/09 at 15:45:18

Routy wrote on 10/24/09 at 14:04:26:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/24/09 at 12:42:41:

Yet, no one seems to want to talk about the low charge rate of a float charger. IS IT or IS IT NOT less than or equal to what an alternator does? IF it is, then shouldnt I stop & pull the caps when the regulator fires the alternator up?

I'm glad you at least put some thought into a subject before you post.
You are exactly right.

1st- There isn't a battery charger out there that puts out more than 40 amps, and most times you will never see more than 30 amp out of it.

2nd- There ain't an automotive alternator out there that puts out less than 60 amps. So don't be telling me that a portable battery charger is going to build up more pressure in a battery than what an alternator puts out. No I ain't even lookin for no websites to back that up, but if a person has even the slightest knowledge about automotive batteries and charging, that along w/ a wee bit of common sense should be enough.

And as far as an alternator not fully charging a battery, from stone dead I mite add, believe it if you want to, but I'm tellin you that all automotive batteries get fully charged every day just by driving down the road, if not there would be millions of dead batteries all over the country. Please, quit the websites, and use a little of your God given common sense.

Thats it, believe what you want to,....take all the caps off all your batteries that your heart desires,... I'm outta here !

1st. "There isn't a battery charger out there that puts out more than 40 Amps."

WRONG. Battery chargers do put out more than 40 Amps. Here are three of many more, that charge at 50 amps, 65 amps, 60 Amps:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02871240000P?mv=rr

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200331048_...

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200331048_...

2nd. " There ain't an alternator out there that puts out less than 60 amps".

WRONG. There are a number of alternators 'out there' that put out less than 60 amps.

1973 Volkswagen: 25 Amps
1970 Toyota Corolla: 30 Amps
1980 MGB: 45 Amps
1975 Nissan: 50 Amps...this list is endless.

Ignoring the links/ instructions of the recommendations of the engineers who designed these chargers and batteries, and instead using "your God given common sense", is why the uninformed get hurt. 'Common sense' tells you to pay attention to the safety warnings of the manufacturers of a piece of equipment.

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