LS650v, yes, these pics ARE from an engine that had an oil delivery problem, yes this is so and you are correct. I was lazy and got called out for it and that is also correct. Thank you for the comment, I will replace the pics with more appropriate ones (if they are still available).
Frankly, it was late and I was lazy, I had these pics on my local PC so I used them. I should have searched out the pics used earlier by other folks to show the same issues. Let me get a little unlazy and go try to find them now.
Lets, see, search engine -- tappet zdp zddp
This thread has a pic of same issue in another flat tappet vehicle, but this too could be seen as exaggerated.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1214085990/14#14 ==========
What the f--- ?? Where are all our LS650 tappet follower pictures?
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Houston, we have a problem. Tech and rebuild posts contained in older threads have lost their pictures due to Photobucket dumping all the older pictures.
The pics I am wanting aren't there any more.
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Who has Savage Greg's CD ?? -- it has some good pics of tappet wear from bikes he worked on. You would have to transfer the pic to a net picture hosting site and and then post it.
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Here is a bit of raw gasoline to dump on your budding oil war fire ...
(this is the shot of raw gasoline)
”Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the "ZDP equivalent" additive level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.
Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.“
(this is the response from the muscle car group)
I do not believe that anyone who has spent time investigating this situation would say that the new oils had insufficient EP characteristics for ALL flat tappet engines, especially low-performance engines. As a matter of fact, the number of oils with API certification proves that low-performance flat-tappet engines can pass the Sequence III tests with acceptable wear. Our study of the ASTM test sequences IIIE, IIIF, IIIG, IVA and VE required to achieve API certification reveal that NONE were developed using high-performance engines. Indeed, these tests were developed using relatively low-performance engines intended to model average current and emerging vehicle engine wear characteristics. This makes sense considering that the purpose of the ILSAC/API specifications is to provide a standard set of performance criteria for oil to be used in new over-the-road automobiles and trucks. The standards are not intended to infer any degree of backwards compatibility with older or specialty engines. While investigating the amount of ZDDP needed to protect engines Olree stated: “
Arguing that modern oils should pass tests developed 25 years ago to protect engines built 30 years ago is a rather useless exercise ”. Since he is studying the situation from the perspective of designing the lubrication for the next generation of motors, we see his perspective for making such a statement. In doing so he is acknowledging that the test is not specifically designed to quantify oil’s performance with older engines. Unfortunately, “those” engines are the ones we enthusiasts run and care about.
At AMI our automotive group has 60 years of experience collectively with GM flat tappet engines. In all of this experience, the recent failures of stock cams and lifters due to severe wear is unprecedented. It is this experience as well as supporting reports from others we spoke to that made us try to find out the nature of the problem first hand. After preliminarily concluding that the low ZDDP levels in SL oils were the culprit for the wear we were seeing, we tried to obtain enough ZDDP for our own vehicles. We soon found out that major oil companies and additive manufacturers do not sell small quantities, and buying a large quantity is expensive! When others people in car clubs asked to buy ZDDP with us as well, we finally were able to put together enough justification to place an order. This is how we first found ourselves in the business of selling a ZDDP supplement.
It is our belief that there is no overt movement in the oil industry to create new oils that are bad for older engines as some conspiracy theorists may speculate. There certainly IS a movement in the oil industry to create new oils which are tailored to the specifications and requirements primarily of newer cars, and secondarily of older vehicles. This does not mean that they are concerned at all with 30 years old muscle cars. To the automotive industry an OLD car is 10 years old. The cars we care about are invisible to the OEM industry. While we have great faith in the engineering behind the new oils, we also notice that backwards compatibility with 100% of old engines is not on the product spec sheet.
The oil manufacturers obviously know of the importance of the ZDDP to older flat tappet engines, as many of them are steering owners of these engines toward their ZDDP formulated diesel oil line, showing they acknowledge the possible need for higher levels of ZDDP in these engines.
The lobes on this 289 Ford Mustang flat tappet cam suffered excessive wear because the motor oil did not contain adequate levels of ZDDP anti-scuff additive.
If you are driving an older classic muscle car or hot rod that has an engine with a flat tappet camshaft, you should be aware of the fact that today's "SM" rated motor oils contain much lower levels of anti-scuff additive called "ZDDP" (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate). The level of ZDDP in current motor oils has been reduced to no more than 0.08% phosphorus to extend the life of the catalytic converter. Phosphorus can contaminate the catalyst over time if the engine uses oil, causing an increase in tailpipe emissions.
The lower ZDDP content is not harmful to late model engines with roller lifters or followers because the loads are much lower on the camshaft lobes. But on pushrod engines with flat tappet cams, the level of ZDDP may be inadequate to prevent cam lobe and lifter wear. In some cases, cam failures have occurred in as little as a few thousand miles of driving! This is even more of a risk in engines if stiffer valve springs and/or higher lift rocker arms are used.
To avoid such problems, you should add a ZDDP additive to the crankcase, or use an oil that meets the previous "SL" service rating, or use diesel motor oil or racing oil that contains adequate levels of ZDDP to protect the camshaft and lifters.
If you are installing a new camshaft in the engine, be sure to use the cam manufacturers assembly lube and follow the recommended break-in procedure. But you will still need to add ZDDP to the crankcase or use an oil that contains adequate levels of ZDDP for continued protection.