SuzukiSavage.com - rich or lean, many Q's (long text)

tomtaz1975

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rich or lean, many Q's (long text)
05/28/09 at 15:06:15

MY01:

Picked it up last year, in good shape but the previous owner really didn't replace/upkeep the consumables, IE oil and filter filthy, air filter filthy, tires pretty bare, spark plug sooty black, etc.

Everything ran great. Since these run like tanks I wasn't too worried about the consumables. I put on new tires, new iridium spark plug, new air filter. Still ran great, but I started to notice this annoying squeal from the right side. Only could hear it with clutch in and moving, or barely when idling. It had something to do with the muffler, maybe more of a whistle than a squeal. Other than that, virtually no backfires, but felt sluggish.

To deal with the whistle-squeal, and part of the sluggishness, I installed a much more free-flowing muffler, DUNSTALL STYLE MEGAPHONE MUFFLER from JCWhitney, which I had to jerry-rig on with automotive flex-muffler connection to deal with the 5-10 degree bend. I immediately have noticed more power and love the deep-loud sound.

Now, however, I have to use the choke to start when I didn't have to before, and to keep it from dying I either have to keep the choke about 1/3-1/2 out and/or increase my idle screw. I also get constant minor backfires, both between gears and shutting her down.

OK, that's the background. Now the Q's.

The sooty spark plug would have led me to believe the bike was running RICH. The fact that I have to use choke and get backfires leave me to believe the bike is running LEAN. Could the spark plug color/soot be misleading because it might have not been changed for forever? Could I have possibly taken the bike from a RICH condition to a LEAN condition purely from the muffler?

If I am LEAN and need to richen the mixture (that's my best guess at this point), I plan on adjusting the needle jet and air adjustment screw. I've messed with a needle jet before, I haven't done the air adjustment screw. Does anyone have a good picture of where this is on the carb?

I am really only interested in having the bike run well, NOT maximizing performance.

With that in mind:
Do I really need to change the other jets, IE with a stage 1 kit?
Should I really also create a higher flow air filter?

I want to install a raptor petcock (based on another thread I would love to be able to take the tank off easier) and adjust the carb at the same time, and I'm hoping not to start off going the wrong way. I also don't want to go through a lot of work and realize I really do need new jets altogether.

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks,
Tom

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2001, Yellow, Dunstall Megaphone Long, 155 Main, 55 Pilot, no spacer, K&N Filter.

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Yonuh Adisi FSO Serious Thumper Offline Savage Jedi (Knight) Posts: 3622 Pilot Valley NV, aka Tatooine Gender:	Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text) Reply #1 - 05/28/09 at 15:14:36 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1181745927
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tomtaz1975

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Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text)
Reply #2 - 05/28/09 at 18:30:41

I already read almost all of the tech articles, so I have a good idea of what to do if I need to, but that doesn't help answer the spark plug vs. other question. It also doesn't answer if you have to install new jets or not or if you can get it working just with adjustments to stock. Also, the picture for the air mixture screw was removed from the original post, so that would still help.

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2001, Yellow, Dunstall Megaphone Long, 155 Main, 55 Pilot, no spacer, K&N Filter.

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T Mack 1 - FSO

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a 1986 XLH1100

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Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text)
Reply #3 - 05/28/09 at 19:11:57

Remember that motorcycles have three fuel circuits. Low speed, mid and high . You can have one lean and have the others rich.

The soot could be from the mid range while the low speed is lean. The new muffler should make it leaner.....

You will need to get into that carb and give us some numbers. Main jet size, low speed jet size and if the White spacer has been modified.

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Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
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30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink

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LANCER

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Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text)
Reply #4 - 05/28/09 at 19:57:07

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 05/28/09 at 19:11:57:

Remember that motorcycles have three fuel circuits. Low speed, mid and high . You can have one lean and have the others rich.

The soot could be from the mid range while the low speed is lean. The new muffler should make it leaner.....

You will need to get into that carb and give us some numbers. Main jet size, low speed jet size and if the White spacer has been modified.

YEP

YEP

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Savage_Amusement Serious Thumper Offline On this steel horse I ride. Posts: 1004 Omaha, NE Gender:	Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text) Reply #5 - 05/28/09 at 20:02:52 The jets kick my butt as well. I can figure out a lot of things, but something about that just defeats me every time. I can get semi close but always something is off.
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odvelasc

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Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text)
Reply #6 - 05/28/09 at 21:37:02

LANCER wrote on 05/28/09 at 19:57:07:

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 05/28/09 at 19:11:57:

Remember that motorcycles have three fuel circuits. Low speed, mid and high . You can have one lean and have the others rich.

The soot could be from the mid range while the low speed is lean. The new muffler should make it leaner.....

You will need to get into that carb and give us some numbers. Main jet size, low speed jet size and if the White spacer has been modified.

YEP

YEP

I concur. CHeck out that white spacer mod for needle height. Also,
what gears was the popping occuring in? If the popping occurs around second and third with hard accel, I believe you may want to look at your main jet. Check for leaks at your muffler connection. If you are getting blueing on the muffler quite quickly than you may have a leak.

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LANCER

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Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text)
Reply #7 - 05/29/09 at 04:28:59

When able take the carb out and pull the pilot and main jet and get the numbers from them ... may need a magnifying glass...and as mentioned see if the white spacer is there and if it is stock or has been filed down already. A stock white spacer is 2.5mm thick. With that info we can better advise you.
Also, as long as you have it pulled apart squirt a whole fresh can of carb cleaner through every tiny hole you can find. Don't forget that little cover on the right side next to the pilot air adjusting screw, it is held in place with 3 acrews and has a little diaphram & spring inside; pull it off too and squirt. Take the pilot air adjusting screw out and squirt.(by the way, when pulling the pilot a. a. screw out, be careful that you get the screw/needle, a tiny spring, a tiny tiny washer and a tiny tiny rubber oring........MUST have all 4 items or things don't work right)

CAUTION WHEN SQUIRTING : keep carb at arms length and wear safety glasses cause stuff squirts out in all sorts of unexpected directions ! Wink

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tomtaz1975

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Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text)
Reply #8 - 05/29/09 at 09:48:53

odvelasc wrote on 05/28/09 at 21:37:02:

LANCER wrote on 05/28/09 at 19:57:07:

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 05/28/09 at 19:11:57:

Remember that motorcycles have three fuel circuits. Low speed, mid and high . You can have one lean and have the others rich.

The soot could be from the mid range while the low speed is lean. The new muffler should make it leaner.....

You will need to get into that carb and give us some numbers. Main jet size, low speed jet size and if the White spacer has been modified.

YEP

YEP

I concur. CHeck out that white spacer mod for needle height. Also,
what gears was the popping occuring in? If the popping occurs around second and third with hard accel, I believe you may want to look at your main jet. Check for leaks at your muffler connection. If you are getting blueing on the muffler quite quickly than you may have a leak.

Thanks guys, that makes sense. I don't know why I didn't think about the fact that I could be lean and rich...

I'm hoping to break into the carb this weekend if I have time. I'm kind of guessing that I was just-right on low speed and rich on the higher speed, and now I'm lean on the low speed and just about right on the higher speed. Most of my riding the last few weeks has been stop-n-go neighborhood riding so I'm only aware of the popping 1st-3rd. I went out once on the highway right after putting on the muffler and don't remember any popping 3rd-5th.

I have run some SeaFoam through it (love that stuff) but will use carb cleaner when I open it up.

I'm a little less confused than I was yesterday...

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2001, Yellow, Dunstall Megaphone Long, 155 Main, 55 Pilot, no spacer, K&N Filter.

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10668 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: rich or lean, many Q's (long text) Reply #9 - 05/29/09 at 11:18:42 I started out confused about my carb, then decided I might as well jump in and see what was what....turned out to be fun !
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