SuzukiSavage.com - Kamikaze air intake design assessment

Savage_Amusement

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #15 - 03/31/09 at 19:36:40

AngloSaxon wrote on 03/31/09 at 11:09:09:

I'm thinking that in place of the PVC you could use one of those little piss pots they give you at the doctors. They have a thinner wall and a screw top.
I had an idea for filter material. My daughter has a tropical fish tank with a filter. The material used as the pre-filter would be excelent for this application as it is about half an inch thick and because it's in water all the time it's quite strong and stiff.
PS. Where did you put your battery?

It is in his saddle bag.

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diamond jim

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #16 - 03/31/09 at 19:51:50

I'm not familiar with that type of filter. It might work. I was surprised several times when testing to find out that a potential filter material that seemed like it would work out great actually had very little airflow and way too much restriction. Likewise I was surprised by some that did pretty decent when I was sure it wouldn't. One of the things I want to try one day are the filters in the full face respirators. They filter very small particulates yet flow air with the little bit of vacuum created by normal breathing. But I don't know how they would do with higher flow rates.

Yep, in the saddle bag with my other electronic crap!

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AngloSaxon Full Member Offline I'd rather have one big one than four small ones. Posts: 141 Framingham MA Gender:	Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment Reply #17 - 04/01/09 at 08:22:09 Thanks for the battery info. It's a nice look. As for filter materials, your local tropical fish store should have several options both fibrous and foam. Try here - http://www.aquariumguys.com/mechanical.html
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diamond jim Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1425 North Alabama Gender:	Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment Reply #18 - 04/01/09 at 08:35:54 Thanks, Saxon. I'm gonna see if I can find some of these then: http://www.aquariumguys.com/fluvalfoam4.html Some of the sleeves look interesting as well.
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saluteTOme

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #19 - 04/08/09 at 17:42:22

Hey guys. I was eating yogurt today and as I am at the bottom of the cup. This big ass light bulb goes off in my head. This thing is a perfect shape for a filter housing. 3.25" OD of opening and about 5cm under 2' at the bottom. Cut out the bottom and glue in a screen and or honeycomb item and even glue on 4 points of the filter and you're good to go.

The cup has a perfect bell shape on the opening. it's the Breyers Fat Free light cups with fruit. (my girl picked these out. I just eat them so shhh)

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diamond jim Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1425 North Alabama Gender:	Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment Reply #20 - 04/08/09 at 19:36:00 Yep, you're right. I imagine it would progressively speed up the air and focus it prior to entering the carb. I was amazed to discover how such little design changes make a big difference. Some more so at the lower end, some more so at the higher and some seemed to work pretty dang good across the rpm range.
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Seth C. Full Member Offline Posts: 173 Tucson, AZ Gender:	Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment Reply #21 - 04/09/09 at 09:20:50 diamond jim wrote on 03/29/09 at 10:30:21: I ordered this 5" 20 degree K&N filter to experiment and see how well it works with my setup. http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RU-1710 How did this work out for you? I'm very interested.
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diamond jim

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #22 - 04/09/09 at 11:07:14

Seth C. wrote on 04/09/09 at 09:20:50:

diamond jim wrote on 03/29/09 at 10:30:21:

I ordered this 5" 20 degree K&N filter to experiment and see how well it works with my setup.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RU-1710

How did this work out for you? I'm very interested.

It seems to idle, ride and accelerate similar to a pod filter. I was hoping is would perform more like the Kamikaze due to the shape and the presence of a small section of tube between filter and carb mouth. But not really a noticeable difference. Noticeable difference, though, compared to the Kamikaze. Primarily a loss of the low end torque. It's funny cause when I put this K&N on I seriously thought my clutch was suddenly slipping. I had gotten used to the torque after riding with the final Kamikaze design for about two weeks. This weekend I'm gonna pull the K&N off and look to see how I can add a turbulator to the tube of the K&N that will extend maybe an inch into the inside of the filter.

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Seth C.

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #23 - 04/09/09 at 11:11:00

diamond jim wrote on 04/09/09 at 11:07:14:

Seth C. wrote on 04/09/09 at 09:20:50:

diamond jim wrote on 03/29/09 at 10:30:21:

I ordered this 5" 20 degree K&N filter to experiment and see how well it works with my setup.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RU-1710

How did this work out for you? I'm very interested.

It seems to idle, ride and accelerate similar to a pod filter. I was hoping is would perform more like the Kamikaze due to the shape and the presence of a small section of tube between filter and carb mouth. But not really a noticeable difference. Noticeable difference, though, compared to the Kamikaze. Primarily a loss of the low end torque. It's funny cause when I put this K&N on I seriously thought my clutch was suddenly slipping. I had gotten used to the torque after riding with the final Kamikaze design for about two weeks. This weekend I'm gonna pull the K&N off and look to see how I can add a turbulator to the tube of the K&N that will extend maybe an inch into the inside of the filter.

So is this Kamaikaze the prefered filter if your going to remove the airbox? Cause that baby is coming off my bike.

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« Last Edit: 04/09/09 at 12:56:23 by Seth C. »

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #24 - 04/09/09 at 11:30:20

diamond jim wrote on 04/09/09 at 11:07:14:

Seth C. wrote on 04/09/09 at 09:20:50:

diamond jim wrote on 03/29/09 at 10:30:21:

I ordered this 5" 20 degree K&N filter to experiment and see how well it works with my setup.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RU-1710

How did this work out for you? I'm very interested.

It seems to idle, ride and accelerate similar to a pod filter. I was hoping is would perform more like the Kamikaze due to the shape and the presence of a small section of tube between filter and carb mouth. But not really a noticeable difference. Noticeable difference, though, compared to the Kamikaze. Primarily a loss of the low end torque. It's funny cause when I put this K&N on I seriously thought my clutch was suddenly slipping. I had gotten used to the torque after riding with the final Kamikaze design for about two weeks. This weekend I'm gonna pull the K&N off and look to see how I can add a turbulator to the tube of the K&N that will extend maybe an inch into the inside of the filter.

Put a DJ turbulator in there and I'd bet it'd be close.

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diamond jim

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #25 - 04/09/09 at 21:16:28

That's what I'm thinking. It would essentially extend the intake tube length and increase air speed. It wouldn't actively increase air speed but rather eliminate or minimize those factors that reduce air speed and introduce those factors that maximize flow. I'll have to determine the length then find straws or other tubing that has a diameter that is between 1/6 to 1/8 the length of the individual pieces. A 2" long turbulator, for instance, would need to be made up of 3/8" to 1/4" diameter tubes. It would look something like this:

Awesome news- I just learned today that there's a guy that lives about 3 miles from where I work who tunes bikes. He's got a shop on his property. Apparently he was injured maybe 15 years ago when he got ran over by a garbage truck. He got a huge settlement. With that money he built his shop. In his shop is a dyno he uses for tuning. Guess where I'll be going sometime soon with the Kamikaze intake and what I expect will be an improved K&N filter?

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JohnBoy

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #26 - 04/10/09 at 07:41:45

Diamond Jim,
Let me start by saying thank you.
It is nice to see that the backyard engineer is still alive and well in America. Your ideas of redirecting airflow “inside” the filter are inciteful. Using soda straws and PVC to smooth air flow is pure shade tree. The fact that you are documenting all of this and keeping us up to date is greatly appreciated. I hope to see dyno results duplicating your road test.

I would like to get your input on two possible tweaks you might try. First, you expressed the concern by some, that a soda straw might break loose and get sucked into the intake. A quick pass of the bundle across the face of a Teflon coated clothing iron should melt (lock) the straws together without distorting their shape too much. Second, if you made the tubes longer and twisted the finished bundle slightly could you create a vortec intake manifold for a savage?

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diamond jim

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Re: Kamikaze air intake design assessment
Reply #27 - 04/10/09 at 09:16:07

JohnBoy, thanks for the feedback.

As far as the straws coming loose- it's just not gonna happen anymore likely than the stock rubber tube desintegrating and getting sucked into the carb. It's amazing how much pressure it took to pull out and pull apart the first turbulator I made. I had to bash it out then had to use needenose pliers and plenty of pulling and twisting to get the straws to start to come off one by one. The teflen iron idea to fuse the opening edges together is sheer brilliance. I don't know if it can be done without causing even the small deformities to the ends but regardless it's a brilliant idea. I don't know about the vortex idea. I'm thinking that works better when you are pushing air through rather than sucking the air through. But who knows. It might work great. Thanks for your input.

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