Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
In need of engine advise.. (Read 203 times)
Simon
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 27
Bensalem Pa
Gender: male
In need of engine advise..
11/23/08 at 20:16:09
 
ok.. so at the end of the season i noticed a little oil leak from my head gasket... i plan on tearing into the engine and rebuilding it, which i have only done with mower and dirtbike engines, but theres a first for everything.. my plan is to put in one of those performance cams, a new cam chain, new piston and rings, clutch plates and springs, and lastly gaskets.  What my question is, what else would need to be replaced?? I want to replace anything i can, that i should if that makes sence.. in other words i dont want a NEW engine.. but i graduate this year (hopefully) and plan on taking the bike on a coast to coast ride this summer before college and all of the real life stuff gets in the way.. and if anyone has any tips or anything i would love to hear it, as of now all i have is the clymer manual so i dont have a whole lot to go off of..
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #1 - 11/23/08 at 20:20:36
 
Tear in if you like, but odds are, that oil isnt from the head gasket. Look around for oil leaks & rubber plugs.

Check out the
"OIl price Up Not Down
thread.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
mick
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Hell-bound

Posts: 7323
Dayton Oregon
Gender: male
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #2 - 11/23/08 at 21:57:35
 
Simon wrote on 11/23/08 at 20:16:09:
ok.. so at the end of the season i noticed a little oil leak from my head gasket... i plan on tearing into the engine and rebuilding it, which i have only done with mower and dirtbike engines, but theres a first for everything.. my plan is to put in one of those performance cams, a new cam chain, new piston and rings, clutch plates and springs, and lastly gaskets.  What my question is, what else would need to be replaced?? I want to replace anything i can, that i should if that makes sence.. in other words i dont want a NEW engine.. but i graduate this year (hopefully) and plan on taking the bike on a coast to coast ride this summer before college and all of the real life stuff gets in the way.. and if anyone has any tips or anything i would love to hear it, as of now all i have is the clymer manual so i dont have a whole lot to go off of..

Chances are the oil leak is from the plug that you can access just by taking the head cover off.
How many miles do you have on it?
Back to top
 
 

Science and Logic fly you to the moon,
Religion makes you fly into skyscrapers
mickrowe37   IP Logged
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28642
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #3 - 11/23/08 at 22:44:16
 
Keeping the bike relatively stock my be most reliable for a long tour.
Back to top
 
 

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
  IP Logged
Simon
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 27
Bensalem Pa
Gender: male
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #4 - 11/25/08 at 09:28:29
 
Thanks alot ill deff look into that more.. but i still think i may tear into the engine.. i have right around 8000 miles which isnt alot.. but i only put about 500 miles on it becasue i bought it trashed and ended up rebuilding the bike.. everything but the motor.. and then last season i had a few little problems which i thought was the motor but it turns out it may be the carb... what happen is i was driving to work and the bike stalled and i couldnt get it running.. there was a small puddle of oil on the engine so i thought i blown a gasket.. i think what it was acutally the carb may have gotton dirty from overspray that the gas had eaten up and made the mix dirty... so as of now im still debating doing the engine and increasing my power.. and i still am a little curious what all i should replace if i do decide to go with that route
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #5 - 11/25/08 at 09:39:42
 
Power comes from jetting & exhaust flow & matching, A better carb & a Lancer cam. Theres no Hop Up stuff for the engine guts. POwer increases are generally bolt on. Someone had their cyclinder coated with some fine thing & its a bonus, but I sure wouldnt be going into the main guts of it unless I had no choice, but IF I was forced to puill the head & piston, Id do the bore coating, clean up the intake & exhaust ports, replace the cam & do the cam chain mods that allow the most miles.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
mick
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Hell-bound

Posts: 7323
Dayton Oregon
Gender: male
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #6 - 11/25/08 at 11:23:19
 
First off Simon we ride bikes we don't drive them.
Now if you do go on and take it all apart get your self a box of zip lock bags and a marker pen, bag and mark as you disassemble,makes life easier later on. A camara can help as well.
Back to top
 
 

Science and Logic fly you to the moon,
Religion makes you fly into skyscrapers
mickrowe37   IP Logged
T Mack 1 - FSO
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

sold 2001 LS650 for
a 1986 XLH1100

Posts: 2919
Emmaus,Pa
Gender: male
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #7 - 11/25/08 at 11:46:26
 
Simon,
 Bensalem Pa???   You're just down the pike..... I'm up here just outside of Allentown.  

I bought my bike with the engine in pieces.  My advice... check the compression first.  If it's in spec, then get a real real bright flashlight and look up in the hole above the exhaust port.  That's the home of the rubber plug the covers one of the head bolts.   IF there's oil there then it's the plug, about a 2-3 hour fix.

If you think the bike was abused, next oil change, pull the right side cover off to check two things. First, check the tensioner to see how far out it is.  Second,  pull the clutch and check the thickenss of the plates.   Be sure you take the clutch parts and lay they out nicely as you take them off.  Some parts need to go back facing the same direction they came off.

Next advice... cardboard is your friend.   Whatever you are taking off the engine, get an old piece of cardboard, draw a rough picture of it and where the bolts are.  When you take the bolt off, push it thru the cardboard at the appropriate spot on the picture.

Got to get that bike running. We're talking about a spring run and most likely another Sept run when Red Whine comes back to PA.
Back to top
 
 

Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
---
30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink
  IP Logged
Trippah
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

I ride, therefore I
am.

Posts: 2517
central Mass
Gender: male
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #8 - 11/25/08 at 16:47:10
 
Coast to Coast on a savage- ahh, to be young. Grin  Simon, congrats on graduating and I hope you have fun in college..but first, a quick  check.  Being young often makes a rider want to go faster, but in all seriousness, if you are planning 3-4K this summer, you'd be better off shooting for reliablility and perhaps extended range (larger fuel capacity)if you've got a comfortble enough seat.  Otherwise, if its speed you want,  go get a crotch rocket and have a blast.  As Justin o guy2 suggested, if you are going into the internals, a cylendar coating makes sense.  If you search back about 1+1/2-2 yrs, someone did a ot of research on boring out and oversized pistons.  There are some photos of a cleaned out ports, done maybee a year ago.  The revised camshaft has been genereally well received and sounds good. The improved cam chain has so far been sucessful, don't know who you'd contact for that.  If you beef up the engine, then you gotta beef up the clutch, and frankly, that sorta makes it all  a waste of time and effort and money; this is a 650 single and has certain limitations (and certain great things) inherent due to bore/stroke/mass etc.  Enjoy and keep us posted, we live vicariously.
If you (and your friends prhaps) are that good mechanically, or are using this as a learning experience, you migh want to research fuel injection as a method of making a bike more reliable.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Chong Kim
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 42
SantaFe, NM
Gender: female
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #9 - 11/25/08 at 19:55:56
 
Personally, I would not want to bet what is possibly the trip of a lifetime on a first-time teardown and re-build. Odds are those Suzuki production people put it together in a fashion that is more reliable than you will be able to do.

If you try hopping up yur engine you may be in the same predicament as a good friend of mine. He had a perfectly nice Aprilia but wanted more horsepower. "It's all about speed, baby!"

Hot cams, high compression pistons, etc. He paid the local "V-Twin Guru" to do all the work, and the guy was so particular that he insisted that all the break-in miles had to be done while accompanying my friend. The Guru really did a nice job, and boy was that thing faster!!! They both were absolutely and supremely confident that this four month project was about as perfect as it could get.

What happened? That engine let go on my friend on a short and not-that-fast 200 mile trip through the Jemez Mountains nearby. The cams were too hot for his riding style and some high performance springs were way too strong. (Maybe valve springs?) My friend spent the rest of the summer tracking down another engine and installing that one so he could get back on the road. He missed the entire season. His sport touring style just didn't go with the new racing engine.

After spending about $7,000.00 total on a $5,000.00 bike, he's right back where he started from. But with an engine that he doesn't really know, instead of the one he had babied all its life.

High performance is attainable, but if it's at the expense of reliability, IMO it's not worth it unless you are going to race it. And the Savage is not a race bike. Hot cams and racing pistons are not needed on commuter cruiser that will be pressed into service as a cool and retro  long distance tourer.

Racers can rebuild after every race. You don't want that to happen 100 miles from town on your trip.

But I'm just a girl, and I could be wrong. Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #10 - 11/25/08 at 20:41:03
 
The "Hot" cam I refer to is just a bit torquier. The engine is still a low reving item. I have almost 20,000 miles on & have had the cam since? I Think it was around 12,000 miles, but thers a chart somewhere that tells it, sorry, my memory is lousy. Playing with "Bolt Ons" & leaving the guts alone make better sense to me. Unless there is an iassue that forces me inside the cylinder, Ill leave that stuff alone. But IF I ever do go in, Its geting coated.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10661
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: In need of engine advise..
Reply #11 - 11/26/08 at 05:58:11
 
While looking to make a cross country trip on the bike I would tend to go with the mod's that improve reliability and enhance performance modestly.  I did not notice that you told us how many miles are on the engine, and if not excessive then leave the bottom end alone and just work the top end.  
Regarding the Performance Camshaft, it is designed for low-midrange torque and as long as the intake and exhaust allow good air flow it makes  for a great road going ride.  With the cam and a VM carb swap and good exhaust, my milage went from 50-52 to 48 mpg.  The extra torque made cruising so much easier, passing multiple trucks a breeze, and riding just more fun.  This is not a RACING CAM just real good efficiency.

Cylinder work was mentioned; I had that done to mine during a necessary rebuild due to massive oil loss on the highway when something knocked a hole in the bottom of the engine case.  The work was done by "Bore-tech" and what they do is called a silicone carbide treatment .  It is not a coating like chrome, it is some kind of fussion with the metal, and no breakin is required.  It you are going to go with a larger bore then this would be a logical thing to do at the same time.  I sent my damaged cylinder & the new piston to them and they did the work and had it back to me in less than 2 weeks.  I think the current cost for a bore job and silicone carbide treatment is ... well, here is list fromt their site:

Prices Per Cylinder      

Price
Carbide Bore Process      
$115.00

Cylinder Boring and Honing      
$60.00

Cylinder Honing Only      
$22-30

Bore, Hone and Carbide Bore Process      
$165.00

They will also clean, bead blast, and paint the cyl for $45.  Good deal.


I cannot recommend the silicone carbide treatment enough, it makes a noticeable difference from the getgo; less friction between cyl/piston which leaves more power for going down the road, less engine heat, MUCH longer cylinder life, etc.
I had mine done about 5 years ago and the price is basically still the same...a super deal.  I am tempted to get the biggest piston available (97mm) and have another cylinder bored/treated.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.   You have a small oil leak...fix the plug or cyl head bolt that is leaking and tune the carb well and service the bike from end to end.  If you really want to pull the top off the engine and make more power then go with Bore-tech or another good company for boring and treating the cyl.  The performance cam would add good usable torque for touring, and be sure you have a good jet/tune on the carb...I would suggest that after the engine work is done that you spend the $$ for a dyno tune to be sure it is really dialed in.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
09/22/24 at 20:27:31



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › In need of engine advise..


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.