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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check (Read 126 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
07/30/08 at 16:30:17
 
The story counts as much as the trick does.

Here's the start of my cam chain story ....


==============================

Once upon a time, long ago in a galaxy far far away --- there lived a lazy old man who didn't want to take the right side of his LS650 motorcycle engine apart every other year to mess with his cam chain adjuster.  The lazy old man was determined to fix his cam chain problem just once, then never have to take his engine apart again.

(until after he had died, anyway -- but that would be somebody else's problem).

The lazy old man read every cam chain thread that existed, and he prompted others to try hard to fix their common problems.  

He investigated and sourced improved life cam chains for the group (he got somebody else to go get and ship them, him being all lazy as I said earlier).  He also teased and prompted some other folks to come up with various adjuster improvements to use those better chains to make everything last longer.  

(in other words, he was lazy but not completely useless)

But still, the best thing invented by the group still required taking the side cover off the engine every few years to put in improved parts and swap out a bolt position.  Then after 30,000 miles or so you got to put in a new improved cam chain and proceed to DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN.

"Aaaaak !!" said the lazy old man.

The lazy old man found a way to remove all the minute particles of ferrous wear products from his engine, in order to get the cam chain to last a little bit longer.  His dirty oil was now "cleaner" than some folks fairly fresh oil, but he feared that this trick would not stop the day the right side cover would still have to come off his engine.

The lazy old man investigated the oils themselves and found a class of oil that would allow the cam chains to last a little bit longer, but even using the better oils the side cover was still going to have to come off in the next year or so and the every 2-3 year round robin of fiddle and mess and fix-the-cam-chain adjuster would commence on the lazy old man's own personal engine.  

The lazy old man didn't like that, so he avowed he'd find a way to cheat so he didn't have to keep taking his side cover off time after time after time.

'I'll take it off once, and that's it !!"  said the stubborn old man.

.....  then he commenced to do some serious scheming and pondering on how to do the dirty deed, consulting with the spirits of nasty mean-tempered floppy-eared dead hand puppets and other occult and mysterious sources.  He studied the photographic work of ancient and obscure motorcycle gurus, like the legendary Savage Greg and he consulted the spirit worlds of the internet and plumbed the bowels of each one of the 24 volumes of the esoteric Thomas Directory.

And then one day it came to him ...  

"Eureka" cried the lazy old man, dancing with glee.

He sketched his sketches and planned his plans, awaiting the day he would finally get to take off the right cover of his engine and fix it so he'd never have to take the cover off again.

He figured he'd do it at the same time he had to change his rear tire, that way he'd kill two birds with one stone.

So he waited,

and waited,

and waited

for his rear tire to wear out .....

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« Last Edit: 07/31/08 at 01:22:36 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
Reply #1 - 07/30/08 at 18:51:39
 
Come on, give.  I need to check mine soon.  I'll be happy to provide a Dewalt tire wearer outer, if it will make the end of the story come out in print sooner.
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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
Reply #2 - 07/31/08 at 01:41:55
 


Look at all the room over to the right of the adjuster, look at all the room to the left of the adjuster.  We only use 25% of the available room with the puny Suzuki adjuster with its truly pitiful stroke.

http://www.texastowers.com/aluminum.htm

This suggests round as a path to follow.  Flat also works.  A man with a milling machine could make what he needed easily with a little more effort he spent making an aluminum holder block.  Me, I would go round, as the stuff can be bought in 6 foot sections fairly cheap.

Consider this:  most modern cam chain tracks are CURVED on both sides and adjust up near the top cam where there is a lot more room to displace the chain.  We displace on one side only, and we only do it at the bottom end where the MINIMUM amount of displacement room exists.

If we made a displacement adjuster on the right side of the cam chain, we would "back up" the timing issue back to zero timing loss every time we adjusted our cam chain.

And if we were smart, the adjustment would be a screw thread going through a housing to the OUTSIDE where all major adjustments would be performed without taking the side cover off ever again.

As for the rest, I have to have mine apart during a cold season to make my parts and fit them.  I plan to use an oil filled round telescoping piece for my automatic increase slack taker upper. (the oil prevents the adjuster from backing away if the engine decides to try to run backwards a bit at a shut down.  The oil also prevents the aluminum material from fretting from the tiny back and forth motions that take place in the slack adjuster)

The right side adjuster will be made of fiber composite material (bakelite is one under consideration) and will pivot from the bottom and curve out at the top, displacing the chain into the large area under the top cam.  It will be driven by a screw to the outside front of the motor.

And the Dragon group can tell you exactly how much tire tread I have left after they check out my tire this weekend.


The Lazy Old Man
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« Last Edit: 07/31/08 at 14:10:16 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
Reply #3 - 07/31/08 at 09:01:40
 
If you mean to adjust tension from the right side of the chain, that will affect cam timing slightly. Something I would rather not do.

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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
Reply #4 - 07/31/08 at 13:38:18
 
You haven't thought it through completely .... when your chain is new your valve timing is spot on.

As the chain wears, your valve timing "retards" the same linear amount that is equal to the wear length increase laid across the top of the top cam gear.  

Verslagen and Savage Greg and the math lovers both calculated and then check measured this wear at approximately 7 degrees for a "worn out" cam chain (w/standard adjuster).  Obviously you go past this if you use the two hole tensioner trick and put all the wear slack on the left hand side of the chain system.  Let's say 10 degrees to be conservative, just for talking purposes.

Now, take this worn-out and 10 degree retarded cam & chain system and put my miracle cure into the right hand side of the system and take up all the slack by putting a curve on the tension side -- why that old cam gear rolls right back to like it was when the chain was brand new.  

Shazzam !!  Like new performance again !!

Zero valve timing retardation as there is no slack and the real increase in chain length is all occupied going around the bow in the bakelite tensioner form.

This point is chewing old soup for us "chain getter" and "adjuster fixer" folks, but it is a new serving of campbell cream of cam chain  soup for the newer ones amongst us.  They at least realized you are moving valve timing around when you go to the right side -- they just got the net effect backwards.

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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
Reply #5 - 08/03/08 at 00:19:07
 
It's approximentally 1 for every .01".
7 is for a worn out chain.
One says go beyond this.
The 2 hole verslavy is to reach this level of wear not go beyond it.
And the chain is likely to stretch on 1 part of the stroke.  So if I'm lucky, I've rotated the chain 180 from the original position.
When I reach 40k, I'm going to replace the chain.  That's $50 to save $500

Oldfeller, are you going to combine an automatic adjuster on the left side and an manual on the right?  That's not going to work.
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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
Reply #6 - 08/15/08 at 22:59:47
 
Actually, after the past month I would tend to agree it isn't worth the effort to design and fabricate the parts.  Once you get to a full wear condition on your mod and take your chain out for keeps, cut the chain apart and measure the wear grooves on the little pins.  If they are worn more than .005" deep in the wear grooves, I would be surprised.  

Your nitrided case depth is .015" to .020" deep on your new group buy chains so you could go further if you wanted to, but to do that you'd have to change the tracking system completely.

Peace.
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Re: Cam Chain Adjuster check
Reply #7 - 08/16/08 at 08:22:38
 
Really, pulling the side cover is not that hard, or expensive. I used a genuine Suzuki gasket that was under $25 and done it when oil change was due. A very small maintenance issue. I moded the tensioner with the two hole design, and have yet to need the new improved chain I bought. My father is doing the basic same maintenance on his Fat Boy@60,000 miles, but let me assure you, its a lot more involved and expensive than the Savage, and the specialty tools to work on the Harley's timing chain setup, allthough not expensive, are more than the total cost of one Savage complete chain replacement. Aaaaah, the simplistic build of a Thumper, refreshing.

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