SuzukiSavage.com - Its all new to me, problems too.

lu09

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Its all new to me, problems too.
07/06/08 at 11:20:32

Hey everyone! So I'm new to motorcycling, its something I've always wanted to do, so I finally took the rider course and got my license. I've since bought a beautiful yellow '86 Savage and have been trying to build confidence riding around.

I have a problem though. After getting her home Thursday afternoon, I couldn't start her up this morning.

Let me give you some specifics.

I picked her up from the dealership, which is about 15 or 20 miles from here. She's had one previous owner who apparently rode her a lot but decided he wanted a bigger bike. The dealer did the state inspection, handed me the keys and off I rode. About a mile and a half from the dealer, I stalled her out at a light and couldn't get her started back up. No engine turnover when I hit the starter, no lights, no power at all. Hitched a ride back to the dealer and got them to tow her back to their shop. After more than an hour of mucking about with it, they said they couldn't see anything obviously wrong with it, but they cleaned the connections and got her started. The previous owner had installed some sort of charger for a Garmin GPS or something, which I had them remove.

So I rode her home, no problems. It was fun, exhilarating, a little scary and I was left a tad sore from my first "long" ride. Two days went by where I didn't have a chance to ride, and then comes this morning. I put the key in, pull out the choke,. hit the cut-off switch (neutral light comes on, so that's good so far), and hit the starter. She tries to turn over a couple times, but it doesn't sound like its going to happen so I lay off. I think , "ah! I probably need to adjust the fuel setting," so I toggled it over to "pri" and let it sit before trying again with the same result. So now I'm thinking I should perhaps adjust the choke setting a little, but when I hit the starter this time, I get nothing. I notice that the neutral light is no longer illuminated and I can' get the turn signals or anything else to light up.

This seems to be the same thing that happened outside the dealership. Any thoughts on this? Bad battery, perhaps? I'm much more technical than mechanical. If it were a computer I'd have had it apart on the floor and fixed in four hours, but these machines with moving parts and lubrication and belts and gears have me somewhat intimidated. I guess that's also why I figured I'd try a friendly group online before walking a block down to where the local Harley riders hang out and ask if any of them know how to fix a Suzuki Grin

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Yonuh Adisi FSO Serious Thumper Offline Savage Jedi (Knight) Posts: 3622 Pilot Valley NV, aka Tatooine Gender:	Re: Its all new to me, problems too. Reply #1 - 07/06/08 at 11:35:10 Sounds like it could be as simple as a bad battery. Did the dealer say how long they had it without starting it?
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Gort

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #2 - 07/06/08 at 11:37:55

Take it back to the dealership and tell them to keep it until they solved the problem, or you want your $ back. Let them watch you start, stop and re-start it, in case you are doing something wrong. Find out the name of the previous owner if you can, and ask him what problems he had with it. You shouldn't have to put up with this from a dealership sold bike.

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rigidchop

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #3 - 07/06/08 at 12:06:14

my 87 came from a dealership as well, a friend of mine bought it. i think he paid about $1500 for it. it would run great for a coupla days, then he couldn't get it to start. he took it back to the dealership, and i assume all they did was put in a new sparkplug and send him on his way. took about a month of this before he gave up and sold it to me. i put in a new cam chain right off the bat, (it did need one) and eventually put in a new petcock (which also was bad) it was always hard to start though. after alot of trial and error, i had a system that worked out pretty well. switch to prime, pull choke out all the way, turn on key, then thumb the magic button, then switch petcock back to the on position. worked every time and alot more quickly. since then i've added a new mikuni from lancer and have not had the problem since.

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Charon

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #4 - 07/06/08 at 13:34:17

From your description, bad battery. You said the bike is an '86, so it's 12 years old. It is unlikely to have its original battery, but it probably has its second or third. Which is probably four or five years old. It is a really good bet the dealer didn't install a new one, if they could get it to start with a charger or a jumper. You could try putting a Battery Tender on it, and see if it will charge, but I'd bet against it.

Starting procedure, given that the bike has run within the last week or so. Cold: pull choke out all the way, squeeze clutch (starter safety interlock), leave throttle closed, push start button. It should start right up. When it does push choke halfway in. Let it idle for a few seconds, then when it smooths out you can probably push the choke the rest of the way in. Warm: don't use the choke. It will probably start at idle. If not you may have to give it just the slightest bit of throttle. If the bike hasn't been run for a couple of weeks, turn the fuel selector to PRI for a minute or so to PRIme the carburetor, then back to ON and use the cold start procedure.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Its all new to me, problems too. Reply #5 - 07/06/08 at 13:55:58 Sound like battery could be low on water check that then charge it up,If that don't work battery is bad most likey
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rigidchop Serious Thumper Offline don't feed the drama llama Posts: 1105 ravenswood wv Gender:	Re: Its all new to me, problems too. Reply #6 - 07/06/08 at 14:15:09 i just re read it and i think its the battery as well.
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Steve M

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #7 - 07/06/08 at 15:43:11

If it's an 86 it's the same as mine and is the magnificent sum of 22 years old.

They didn't have a start interlock on the 86 (it came in in 87).
So yours should be like mine and have a side stand that just springs up when you move bike upright?

To start all you do is ensure kill switch is in correct positon, put it in neutral, pull out choke knob if its cold, fuel tap on, and press the starter.

Almost certainly battery is duff but it would be a good idea to check that when engine is running the generator is charging the battery, someone can do this in a few seconds with a voltmeter accross battery terminals. (or run engine point bike at wall, put headlight on main beam turn on indicator and put on brakes, so there is a good load on the electrics and then rev engine, if genny is charging and battery is in low state of charge the headlight will be brighter when you rev and dimm a bit at tickover).

Also note if the decompressor is working, the solonoid should pull the cable for a short time so engine turns fast under minimal load and then shut off so engine has compression and fires. If this isn't working the starter will struggle to get engine turning and this can flatten the battery quite fast.

Agree that dealer should sell you a bike that works so if you can't do it yourself get them to make these checks.
If they think you know what your on about theyr'e less likely to "try it on" with you.

It is a remote possibilty that there is short in the starter or wiring somewhere that is draining the battery without blowing a fuse, this is umlikely though as the loom on the 86 is pretty simple and robust with well made connectors.

good luck, and a warm welcome to the world of biking, when she's running sweet and you get out there riding it will be worth it!

Steve

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Charon

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #8 - 07/06/08 at 17:36:04

My mistake and my bad math - 22 years, not 12. I had an '83 Suzuki Tempter, which had the clutch safety switch, so I figured the Savage would have it as well. I still think the battery is bad, and the dealership is likely to tell you it was sold to you "as is." After all, you drove it off the lot, so it must have been OK.

You might also want to check the date codes on the tires. It is said that tires over six or seven years old should be replaced, no matter how much tread they have. It wouldn't hurt to replace the rubber fuel and vacuum lines between the carburetor and the petcock, and the rubber hydraulic front brake line (many recommend replacing it with a braided steel line).

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savage2k

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #9 - 07/06/08 at 18:19:21

I beg to differ.....I ran a bad battery for 2 seasons ( couldn't afford another at the time) and at the worst of times, even when it wouldn't start, I could at least get get some lights. I am the KING of push starting!
If the dealership cleaned the connections and she started, that eliminates the battery scenario...There is definitely a short somewhere.....Why it didn't blow a fuse I am not sure?...

Take it back and tell them......"Solve this or I am walking" Usually you have 30 days to get out of any contract regarding purchasing.....I think they will only be too happy to oblige......Not a big market for a 22 year old bike.

Good luck and please keep us posted Undecided

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verslagen1

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #10 - 07/06/08 at 19:39:12

I'm not sure about the original version but all of the later years have a problem with low voltage starting, it won't spark, but it turns over fine. If you have a bad cell or a cell going bad it won't hold a charge but will start right after a charge.

Second thought, how many miles, how long was it sitting? If it's been sitting long then clean the carb and pay attention to the float valve screen. Also the petcock screen.

And go ahead and push the dealer abit, alot of times they don't look at the bike at all.

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Steve M

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #11 - 07/07/08 at 05:01:07

I have started again with your problem in my mind by thinking through what I would do if I had the problem on one of my bikes.
Just had a thought if the battery is ok and is charging there are other things that could cause this kind of problem.

If you check the no load voltage accross the battery with a volt meter 12.6 V to 12.8 V (2.10-2.13V per cell) = fully charged.
11.8 V to 12.0 V = low charge / flat battery
this is at 20 °C, and must be adjusted -0.022V/°C for temperature variations.

If you check this and get 12.5 volts plus then the problem is something else, if you have 12 volt or below the problem is certainly the battery or charging curcuit / wiring.

Something I do feel is bad about the Savage is the ommission of red warning lights for battery charging and oil pressure and a trip meter in the speedo. I realise Suzuki wanted to leave the bars uncluttered and clean looking with a minimalist speedo on the tank, but these are important items for you and the bikes well being!

If the charging curcuit is working then when engine revs are increased you should get 14 volts plus accross the battery, although for some strange reason my 1986 savage has only ever made 13.6 volts! I have tried 3 different regulators on it and tested the alterantor which is working fine.

It should have been been checked before you bought the bike to but if it's a trade in they just want shot of it's possible the dealer didn't bother.

1. A dodgy engine earth connection could cause an intermittent problem with starting.
2. a faulty starter relay, (solonoid switch), which is mounted to rear mudguard under the seat, (and is quite difficult to get at).
3. a faulty voltage regulator, (this part converts a high ac voltage from altermator to a regulated dc voltage to run bikes electrics and maintain battery in a charged stste.
4. a fault in the wiring curcuit that allows the battery to discharge even when electrics are off.

I used to hate electrics because the darn stuff is invisible! You can see and smell petrol and oil. But over 35 years of running all sorts of cars and bikes I have gradually got my head round the stuff.

Another techy point in case you hear about it and get confused, (this isn't stated correctly in the clymer manual).
The 86 to 88 model had a regulator with 6 wires on it, and these are no longer available new so are like the proverbial rocking horse s***!
The later model has a regulator with only 5 wires on it and is different internally. I have tried both on my 1986 and both work the same on my bike, (although as mentioned above I have never seen more than 13.6 volts accross the battery with the engine running. However I have never had a flat battery so it's doing it's job. I ride with my headlight always on but the only extra load the electrics have is a garmin gps so I'm not stretching it.

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lu09

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #12 - 07/09/08 at 18:13:36

So I ran the battery on a charger over night and slid it back in today and the bike started right up, like nothing had ever been wrong! I'm surprised that the dealership didn't check this out right away. I guess I shouldn't be. My guess is failing to see anything obviously wrong with the machine, they jump started it and sent me on my way. Suffice to say I won't be going back there for anything.

Anyway, thanks for all your support guys! This has to be the friendliest forum I've ever come upon! Hopefully after I have a few more miles under my belt I'll have something meaningful to contribute! Grin

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mick Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Hell-bound Posts: 7323 Dayton Oregon Gender:	Re: Its all new to me, problems too. Reply #13 - 07/09/08 at 22:21:45 One more thing,you should not need full choke in the summer,unless you live in a cold climate.
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skrapiron -FSO

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Re: Its all new to me, problems too.
Reply #14 - 07/10/08 at 05:05:17

I would not trust the battery. It could be something as simple as low electrolyte in one of the cells. Or it could be live Verslagen said and you have a bad cell causing the voltage to drop.

In either case, I'd suggest you find a 'sealed' or 'maintenance free' battery. The Big Crank AGM battery is a popular choice among the community here. I swapped my OEM battery last winter for the Big Crank. One thing I noticed right away is how much faster and easier the bike starts when cold.

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Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.

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