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runs well but won't idle cold (Read 132 times)
Gaholfer
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runs well but won't idle cold
06/25/08 at 07:01:07
 
Hi,  this is my first bike and my first post about this bike.  Just want to say i've read through alot of posts and wow everybody here is so helpful and that's awesome!

Down to the issue with alot of background info.  I just bought the bike in may.  She's an '01 that only had 3800mi.  Yeah, it was sitting around for a while.  Ran well though when i got her, but seemed to run a little roughly at low to mid-low idle speeds thru any gear.  Ran well at medium to full throttle.  Got good gas mileage...bout 52mpg the first tank.  As a new owner i was eager to get to know her but not ever having worked on a bike before i did alot of reading, mainly on this site and i also got a clymer manual.

From what i've read on many other posts here is that the savage come from the factory running lean and that at low to mid idle speeds it might not run as smoothly.  Read that taking out the little white spacer and adjusting the idle/air mix screw would make a decent improvement in how she runs....and it did.  Ran much smoother after that but the mileage went down to just under 40mpg...that seemed like a drastic drop.  When i opened up the carb it was prettey gummed up with so i cleaned it out as well as i knew how.

After a week or so she began to not idle when cold and then sometimes not even when warmed up either.  It almost seemed random when she wouldn't idle.   Almost always in the morning she wouldn't idle, i would have to hold the throttle on a little when stopped to keep it from dying.  then once warm it would idle fine...then 15 minutes later down the road it would start the same thing.  So being frustrated, i opened up the carb again, pulled out the plug...plug was pretty fouled...hard to tell if was oil fouled or running too rich or both.  I changed it out and also opened up the carb again and did a much more thorough cleaning.  I hadn't pulled out the main jet the first time and i did this time and boy was it nasty.  got everything cleaned out really well this time, adjusted the float to the recommended measurements.  Everything is stock minus where i took out the white spacer.  I added a another spacer roughly 1/3 the size of the white one.  I also cleaned out the air filter.  Was nasty and had alot of oil in it.  Couldn't get one local so i sprayed it with carb cleaner, let it sit a bit and then took a wet dry vac and sucked all the nastiness out of it.  the air box has what seems to me alot of oil in it.  literally a puddle in the bottom.  I drained the two tubes (well one is actually just a plug or cap) that comes from the bottom.  Got probably 1/4 cup of oil from both.

Anyways, after all that...i put her back together and immediately took her out for a test drive and she ran really well...idled well from cold to hot.  turned out the idle air screw 2 turns...and finally turned it back in bout a 1/4 turn.  Honestly when i turn the screw while she's running i can't tell a difference in how she sounds.  After all that she did like she was supposed to for about two days.  

Now yesterday morning I started her up and she idled for about 20 seconds before dying.  took about 5min of riding to get it warmed up and then it would idle fine.

This morning it did the same thing but only idled from cold for aobut 10 seconds...died. Cranked her back up and held the throttle bout 1/4 way back for about 10-15 seconds and then she just dumped fuel out of the bottom...i assuming it came from the overflow tubes from the carb but i couldn't tell and i really needed to get to work so i just jumped on her and rode...bout 5min later she was warm and had no problem at idle.  I'm in Warner Robins GA and it's about 75deg outside in the morning and then 95 in the afternoons...but honestly, i'm at a loss as far as what else to do...

Should i put the white spacer back in?  (if i can find it) I failed to mention earlier ( and i know right now you're thinking, as much as you've said already how could you have missed something!)  that i did check the valve clearance also that first time I opened up the carb and it was good.

Sorry for such a long post, but i didn't want to leave any history out...but does anybody have any suggestions? Undecided
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #1 - 06/25/08 at 07:28:33
 
When I was messing with the white spacer, I didnt realize the diameter was critical. Whatever gets used has to be no bigger across than the white spacer, or it wont pass in the tube.
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rpgpgmr
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #2 - 06/25/08 at 07:33:16
 
First of all, don't apologize for so much detail.  The more the better!  I had the same idling problem and for me it was the spark plug.  I dropped in a new one at the specified gap and my idling problem went away.  In addition to that, maybe turn up the idle speed a bit more.  When my idle speed is low, it won't idle for long before dying.

As for the white spacer, I completely removed mine.  I shaved it 1/8 at a time until there wasn't a 1/8 left. Smiley  Sounds like you've been pretty thorough and I'm just a novice, but I'd check that plug again and try turning up the idle speed.
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Charon
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #3 - 06/25/08 at 07:58:37
 
Plugs don't usually foul if the mixture is lean. They foul from either a rich mixture or from oil. Was the fouling on the plug black and sooty, or was it black and oily? Sooty is from a rich mixture; oily means oil got in there from somewhere.

The oil you described in the air box worries me. I would want to check and see if more got in there. If it did, I think I'd check the oil level in the engine closely. It is possible someone filled it to the middle of the oil window while the bike was on the sidestand instead of upright. There is an oil breather line from the head to the air box - check and see if it is full of oil. If it is, you need to find out why.
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Gaholfer
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #4 - 06/25/08 at 08:21:43
 
Thanks a ton for all the input..and so quickly!!

In answer to one response I just changed the plug on during over the w/e when i cleaned up the carb and adjusted the float.  The spacer i put in did provide a little resistance sliding up and down so i use a jewelers file to clean it more so I don't think it should give any resistance...if it did would that cause the fuel dump that i got when i held the throttle back a little to try and warm her up?

Also...thanks for the heads up...I did check the oil and it looks like the previous owner filled the oil up to the level with it on it's sidestand so it is a little overfull when i hold it level.  

In response about the plug it seemed to be a little oily when i changed it...i'll open the air box here in an hour or so ( I mean jeez, i am at work so they would prob appreciate if at least pretended to be doing something Roll Eyes and see if there is alot more oil in there.  If so, would the oil being over full cause the oil in the airbox and the fouling of the plug?  And maybe even the fuel dump, however unlikely that seems???

Not knowing much, who am i to say...Thanks a ton for all the replies by the way!!
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Gaholfer
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #5 - 06/25/08 at 08:26:06
 
Oh also...there does appear to be some oil leakage around the head...thought maybe it was coming from that plug i've heard so much about...but if the oil was overfull, and i've been driving around like that for about 6 to 700 mile, could it be leaking more likely from the head?
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Gaholfer
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #6 - 06/25/08 at 11:10:12
 
Here are a couple of pics i just took of my plug.  It's brand new and has only been in the bike about 150mi.  Not alot on it but should there be anything after that many miles?  appears to be a small deposit on the middle piece too.  

Also opened up the air box...there's a smattering of oil in there. filter's not saturated as it was before, of course i just cleaned it sat.  Also opened up the breather tube come from the head to the airbox...wasn't full of oil...but it wasn't dry either...just a little residue.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3110/2610442075_4bf0961a35_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/2610441961_78aa0d285a_o.jpg
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Digger
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #7 - 08/03/08 at 21:00:40
 
Assuming the color fidelity of the plug photos is good, I'd say that plug doesn't look too bad.
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #8 - 08/03/08 at 21:51:50
 
I don't know about the mileage, but that insulator is very clean.  So I'd say you're running lean.
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Re: runs well but won't idle cold
Reply #9 - 08/04/08 at 22:17:02
 
Try it on PRI the next morning you start it.  I pulled my hair out for weeks thinking my carb was running too rich.  In reality, it was running out of fuel until the engine was good and hot.  The vacuum petcock was not operating right until it was good and hot.
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