SuzukiSavage.com - Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet... Reply #15 - 06/19/08 at 05:18:34 Yer SPOSED to unload the spring in the torque wrench when yer done, man...
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Reelthing

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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #16 - 06/19/08 at 09:12:23

smokin_blue wrote on 06/19/08 at 04:04:08:

Reelthing wrote on 06/18/08 at 15:00:22:

Hey I've seen one like that before!

how much torque was on the nut when you removed it?

no idea if these bikes ship with the back tire in place or if that is part of the dealer setup when they come out of the crate.

They ship with the back wheel on......front fender, and front wheel, handlebars, and sissy bar are off. rear tire nested, front axle bolted in the crate and stablilized by a bracket at the bar clamps.

- so this loose nut is either a product of wear as the nut can't backoff with the lock tabs down or factory incorrect assembly - if we assume wear - wonder what in that stack is doing so - the spacer under the pully is a pretty solid piece of steel... don't know - I still have the old parts - might be an afternoon of playing with a mic'r'meter in the future.

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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #17 - 06/19/08 at 19:25:07

Reelthing wrote on 06/19/08 at 09:12:23:

smokin_blue wrote on 06/19/08 at 04:04:08:

Reelthing wrote on 06/18/08 at 15:00:22:

Hey I've seen one like that before!

how much torque was on the nut when you removed it?

no idea if these bikes ship with the back tire in place or if that is part of the dealer setup when they come out of the crate.

They ship with the back wheel on......front fender, and front wheel, handlebars, and sissy bar are off. rear tire nested, front axle bolted in the crate and stablilized by a bracket at the bar clamps.

- so this loose nut is either a product of wear as the nut can't backoff with the lock tabs down or factory incorrect assembly - if we assume wear - wonder what in that stack is doing so - the spacer under the pully is a pretty solid piece of steel... don't know - I still have the old parts - might be an afternoon of playing with a mic'r'meter in the future.

One thought is that the pulley belt surface is wider than the spline area, Whereas a sprocket holds the same width. Now where I am going with this is that a chain will pretty much pull in line with a sprocket whereas if something causes more load on one edge of the pulley than another it can create a pretty good moment on the pulley putting an excessive rocking load on the spline area as the system rotates. That rocking becomes a small sliding motion on the spline surfaces which then rapidly accelerate wear and the more it wears the more it rocks the more it wears the more the wear is accelerated...hello wheel of fortune sound!

Don't know as you are right it should not do what it did. As far as the lock tabs. I have seem many many GS's, TS's , GSX-Rs all loosen their counter shaft nuts even with lock tabs down. It just doesn't keep it tight. The only thing I can think that normally really saves the pully is the lock nut (not a feature on the older bikes) and the 10 gallons of locktite they put on in Japan!

Definately a point to inspect!

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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #18 - 08/02/08 at 21:01:29

smokin_blue wrote on 06/19/08 at 19:25:07:

One thought is that the pulley belt surface is wider than the spline area, Whereas a sprocket holds the same width. Now where I am going with this is that a chain will pretty much pull in line with a sprocket whereas if something causes more load on one edge of the pulley than another it can create a pretty good moment on the pulley putting an excessive rocking load on the spline area as the system rotates. That rocking becomes a small sliding motion on the spline surfaces which then rapidly accelerate wear and the more it wears the more it rocks the more it wears the more the wear is accelerated...hello wheel of fortune sound!......

Interesting point, smokin'.

Perhaps this application calls for a judicious application of moly paste on the splines before reassembly. As far as I can tell, the FSM does not call for such.

What say out there?

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Demin Serious Thumper Offline We need more chlorine in the gene pool Posts: 2435 Warren,Ohio Gender:	Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet... Reply #19 - 08/03/08 at 07:24:14 It's funny this thread came back up.Took the pulley off of the '87 because it was leaking.Put the impact on it,and it spun right off as soon as I hit the trigger.Splines are beat up.
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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #20 - 07/28/09 at 18:51:03

I recently checked the torque on my bike's drive pulley nut (my bike is in my signature), and I'd like to clarify a point for posterity.

On my bike, anyway, the threads are conventional right-hand threads. You can also see this on the picture in Denim's post, just above this post.

A while back, there were some posts (see http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1214173745/3#3) that said the threads were left-hand. Perhaps this was true for some of the pre-2001 bikes, I'm not sure.

BTW, I ran the nut up to 75 ft-lbs and it did not move. I guess it is OK.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet... Reply #21 - 07/29/09 at 08:00:06 Wouldnt make sense for those to be left hand threads. If an end on view of the shaft is taken, then, when the shaft rotates, if you held the nut, it would tighten. If left handed, then it would loosen. The reason they even Do the left handed threads is to make it so shaft rotation doesnt invite a nut to back off.
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Rogue_Cheddar Serious Thumper Offline Hang up the phone and drive! Posts: 725 Haverhill, Massachusetts Gender:	Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet... Reply #22 - 07/29/09 at 10:03:50 My splines had gotten ruined at 12k. I JB Welded a new spocket, still holding at 20k. I'm not touching that sprocket ever again ifn I don't have to.
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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #23 - 07/29/09 at 13:27:02

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/29/09 at 08:00:06:

Wouldnt make sense for those to be left hand threads. If an end on view of the shaft is taken, then, when the shaft rotates, if you held the nut, it would tighten. If left handed, then it would loosen. The reason they even Do the left handed threads is to make it so shaft rotation doesnt invite a nut to back off.

long as you had the locking washer on there sure doesn't seem like the nut could move - I think it was just a QC on some of these bikes as the '95 only had maybe 5lbs on it and a perfect fold on the locking washer with all of it's teeth still there

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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #24 - 07/29/09 at 15:49:57

I'd use something like Loctite 635 Retaining Compound, but it could only be found at an industrial supply store. Alternately, I'd use consumer Loctite blue.

The loosening could be from wear on the faces of the pulley where it contacts the shoulder on the shaft or the washer. If the pulley wears and gets thinner, the nut is no longer holding it as is should without the nut turning.

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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #25 - 07/29/09 at 22:15:47

I am glad that I couldn't sleep tonight and read this post. I have had the wheel of fortune sound for several hundred miles. I checked out the front wheel bearing and brakes. All was well. I commute appx 60 miles daily round trip. It's going to rain hard for a few days. I know what I am checking out tomorrow night!! I have been planning an all day road trip to some civil war parks. Have been reluctant to do so because of the noise. Thanks all!!

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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #26 - 08/01/09 at 16:59:48

Checked out the bike last night. Front pulley was OK fine. Reached back to the rear pulley and it was wobbly. The rear axle bolt was loose. Just enough to allow some wobble in the bearingsand pulley. Torqued it down and no more noise. Just rode the driveway but it was enough to tell. Hope the rains will be gone tomorrow and allow a real test. Will update.

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Rockin_John Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Posts: 1562 +36° 10' , -95° 48' Gender:	Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet... Reply #27 - 08/02/09 at 00:20:35 Granpa: Hope the loose rear axle bolt was all there was to your noise. Digger: I don't know about my 1987, since I haven't removed it, but my 1999 sprocket nut is normal right handed thread; as I was recently reminded when changing the front sprocket from 17t down to 16t.
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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #28 - 08/05/09 at 18:08:02

Great information fellas, I've had the wheel of fortune noise going on as well, kept aligning the belt to no avail. Pulled the cover off to get a look at the front sprocket, there was definately a slight wobble there. Was able to tighten it just slightly, that is the nut moved just a tad and the torque wrench clicked @ 65 ft/lbs, but it was enough to take the wobble out & kill the noise. As I'd already hit 65 with the wrench and wasn't satisfied I'd done enough, I gave the breaker bar a couple of wacks with a hammer for good measure. I guess I'll take the nut off this weekend and have a look at splines. Question next, as the bike wanted to roll off as I'm torqing, and belt stretch seems to me to interfere with an accurate reading, how does one go about securing the mechanism to avoid those issues? A bar through the spokes doesn't seem like the way to go... Huh

Mike

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Re: Dodging the Belt Pully Bullet...
Reply #29 - 08/06/09 at 05:24:55

MikeJ wrote on 08/05/09 at 18:08:02:

Great information fellas, I've had the wheel of fortune noise going on as well, kept aligning the belt to no avail. Pulled the cover off to get a look at the front sprocket, there was definately a slight wobble there. Was able to tighten it just slightly, that is the nut moved just a tad and the torque wrench clicked @ 65 ft/lbs, but it was enough to take the wobble out & kill the noise. As I'd already hit 65 with the wrench and wasn't satisfied I'd done enough, I gave the breaker bar a couple of wacks with a hammer for good measure. I guess I'll take the nut off this weekend and have a look at splines. Question next, as the bike wanted to roll off as I'm torqing, and belt stretch seems to me to interfere with an accurate reading, how does one go about securing the mechanism to avoid those issues? A bar through the spokes doesn't seem like the way to go... Huh

Mike

Did you pry up the tab on the locking washer while you were at it?

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