SuzukiSavage.com - Improved S40 suspension?

verslagen1

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Re: Improved S40 suspension?
Reply #15 - 04/12/08 at 19:14:43

bill67 wrote on 04/12/08 at 17:10:35:

Let us know how it rides when you get that done,verslagen

I didn't start this. I'm in it just as a mental exercise. Maybe I'll get some good tips rear end geometry. Grin

You don't need to go 'mental' on us. You don't believe it can be done, fine, say what experience you got. I'd like to hear it.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Improved S40 suspension? Reply #16 - 04/12/08 at 19:36:51 Most snowmobiles have 2 or 3 holes on the rear suspension to change the angle of the shock .my first snomobile 36 years ago had it,I know what changing the angle does.
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verslagen1

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Re: Improved S40 suspension?
Reply #17 - 04/12/08 at 20:52:35

barry68v10 wrote on 04/12/08 at 05:58:00:

After exploring a few different options, I've begun pondering an alternate solution and I want some feedback.
Good idea, dumb idea? Thoughts?

Yo, Barry haven't heard from you, doing some practical studies?

barry68v10 wrote on 04/12/08 at 05:58:00:

... and I think you could gain a bunch of extra suspension travel

You got 2 ways to get more travel, drop the rear tire, or raise the fender.

barry68v10 wrote on 04/12/08 at 05:58:00:

This would allow a MUCH LONGER shock, and I think you could gain ... "dial-in" capability.

What do you want to "dial-in"?

Bill, were the added holes on the swingarm or the top mount?

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barry68v10

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Re: Improved S40 suspension?
Reply #18 - 04/12/08 at 20:55:51

Great fellas! This is the kind of lively debate I like to see around here. Gets the ol' mental juices flowin'. Grin

Bill, one of the main reasons for moving the shock mount back is to increase my selection of shocks and springs. Once you get out to 14-15" shocks and greater (eye-to-eye) your selection of both improves and prices seem to drop slightly. You can even start to look at dirt/circle track car parts...

I've been through this on my dirtbike. Except in reverse, kept blowing out shocks, and with an 1800 lb/inch spring, the darn thing was still too soft! To correct the problem I added a 650 lb/inch spring. (Yes, I now have two springs on my mono-shock dirtbike.) Which, would have been too much if in-line with suspension travel (the spring was what I had on-hand), so I moved it 30 degrees out (out of the radius angle.) This cut the effect enough to be perfect for me and my style of trail-riding.

If I moved BOTH upper and lower shock mounts rear-ward, I would expect a MUCH STIFFER ride with the same shocks. By only moving the bottom mount back, I expect the ride to soften with the same shocks and springs.

If we all agree on these points, we can REALLY have some fun with Verslagen and express all the equations that show how this works... Grin

On a side note, a PHD Mechanical Engineer and I headed down the wrong path with this problem until my first "test" and we saw the error of our ways...my first test left my dirtbike sitting with the fender ON the rear wheel. (To be fair, my Mech E friend works in aircraft design and doesn't enounter problems like this on the job.)

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barry68v10

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Re: Improved S40 suspension?
Reply #19 - 04/12/08 at 21:33:39

[quote]Yo, Barry haven't heard from you, doing some practical studies?

Sorry, wife put me to work yesterday and today...

barry68v10 wrote on 04/12/08 at 05:58:00:

... and I think you could gain a bunch of extra suspension travel

You got 2 ways to get more travel, drop the rear tire, or raise the fender.

I assumed when you "bottom out" your reaching the end of suspension travel in the shock but not necessarily the mechanical limits of the swingarm or tire-to-fender clearance. Is that false?

I do intend to increase the ride height as well.

barry68v10 wrote on 04/12/08 at 05:58:00:

This would allow a MUCH LONGER shock, and I think you could gain ... "dial-in" capability.

What do you want to "dial-in"?

I don't like the bone-crushing ride the stock suspension gives. I'd like to see more stock "sag" so the tire could react better to potholes, bumps, etc. Also, I want to be able to change on-the-fly based on the type of riding I'll be doing. There are auto coil-over shocks I've been eyeing that have compression-biased valving. You can get them from 11.25" up to 24.5" with up to 9 inches of travel. You can also externally tune rebound and compression damping as well as spring preload. You can get springs for them in anything from 95 in/lbs to 450. I find myself turning to auto technology when possible because of the higher demand/availability/selection.

As I've stated before, I can't help it, I like to "tinker." Grin

When it's all said and done, I might just go with some Progressive 412 shocks in 12" or 12.5" and be done. Especially if I can't figure out how to make this work before I drop the necessary $. But the mental gymnastics keeps me on my toes, and who knows? I might find a break-through with one of these hair-brained schemes the rest of you can benefit from. Grin

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Re: Improved S40 suspension?
Reply #20 - 04/12/08 at 22:24:31

barry68v10 wrote on 04/12/08 at 20:55:51:

(To be fair, my Mech E friend works in aircraft design and doesn't enounter problems like this on the job.)

I do stress in aircraft duct work, so I'll cut him some slack. Mainly cause I know how high his thinking can be and basic stuff just doesn't enter the picture. What you don't use, you forget.

I suspect damping is what you need to play with most.

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bill67

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Re: Improved S40 suspension?
Reply #21 - 04/13/08 at 03:22:24

I want hold you guys youth and inexperience against you, but my bike rides must better than stock.I'm very happy with the progressive shocks.The seat feels good,I didn't have to raise the front of the seat,I can move around on the seat I'm not locked in one position.By what I've heard here the single seat must be better than the 2 piece seat.

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william h krumpen

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Demin Serious Thumper Offline We need more chlorine in the gene pool Posts: 2435 Warren,Ohio Gender:	Re: Improved S40 suspension? Reply #22 - 04/13/08 at 06:01:52 Did you change the angle of the shocks or did you just change shocks? I think aviation engineering qualifies a little better than some old farts opinion about his 30 year old sled!Just change your seat that'll fix everything.
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verslagen1

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Re: Improved S40 suspension?
Reply #23 - 04/13/08 at 08:13:56

barry68v10 wrote on 04/12/08 at 21:33:39:

When it's all said and done, I might just go with some Progressive 412 shocks in 12" or 12.5" and be done. Especially if I can't figure out how to make this work before I drop the necessary $. But the mental gymnastics keeps me on my toes, and who knows?

So you got a back up plan, which is what bill did plus a good seat.

fleabay had a swingarm not to long ago, did you pick it up for mod's?

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barry68v10 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 955 Maryland Gender:	Re: Improved S40 suspension? Reply #24 - 04/13/08 at 17:36:55 Good thought Verslagen! I didn't see the swing arm, but I'll start looking to see if I can get something to tinker with.
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