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Just wanted to say Hi and have a question (Read 152 times)
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Just wanted to say Hi and have a question
02/26/08 at 14:22:30
 
Just wanted to introduce myself and wanted to say Hi to everyone.
I'm riding a '07 S40 since May last year and have noticed some things, which I'm not very fond of.
1.  Backfire after shutting the engine off
2.  Jerks sometimes when going from a stop
3.  Seat not very comfortable beyond 50 miles.  It becomes very uncomfortable.

I've already read up somewhat on those issues in your forum and really like the information posted in the Tech section.  Great stuff.

But what I have not seen yet and which is most likely a very difficult conversion, has anyone tried to EFI the S40?

I have tons of experience with Megasquirt on my car since I dropped the stock ECU and replaced it with Megasquirt, eliminating the distributor with coilpacks and running bigger injectors for a future turbo install.
But it seems like there are not really any options of converting a carbed motorcycle to EFI.

If anyone has any experience with EFI conversions on motorcycles, I'd love to hear them.  Maybe one day I will attempt it.

Thomas
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Dark Savage
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Re: Just wanted to say Hi and have a question
Reply #1 - 02/26/08 at 14:49:15
 
Why would you want to do it on a Savage? One of the biggest draws for most of us is the reliability stemming from the extreme simplicity of the Savage engine. There's not much to break and the one fatal issue with it can be worked around. I'm all for the "geek factor" of converting to EFI but I'm sure there are much better bike candidates for such a conversion.

On the other hand I doubt anyone else has ever done it. If you want to be the first to do something this is probably it.

It would probably be one of the most simple EFI conversions ever, too, considering you only have to deal with one cylinder.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Just wanted to say Hi and have a question
Reply #2 - 02/26/08 at 14:53:37
 
This has been the topic of a few threads. So far, the general consensus has been,  a LOT of engineering goes into it. Throttle position, vacuum & oxygen sensors are necessary. If you are serious about wanting EFI, maybe you will have to be the first one. Every mod is done by someone first. Anyway, I think the EFI is more costly & difficult than the potential fuel savings would justify. I remember watching the EFI on cars as it went thru development, seems it took years before it became truly dependable. The carb works & the MPG is better on the stock 650 than tons of bikes. Even lots of efi equippd ones.
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Re: Just wanted to say Hi and have a question
Reply #3 - 02/26/08 at 16:16:12
 
I think ifn yer gona do EFI, you'd need the tools to do it rite, or else performance/mpg/reliability would suffer. Correct software, EGT-O2-head temp-oil temp sensors, maybe more, A dyno would shorten tune time. Maybe even a exausht gas analyzer. The fuel and timeing curve both would need calibrated, so that would mean a totaly new cdi box that worked with the EFI. You'd definatly have to permanetly add sensors to the bike, and a knock sensor would be nice. Would need to add a electirc fuel pump, and that might require a higher stator output than stock, and if you mounted the pump outside of the fuel tank, the pump noise might be iritating, and if you mount it inside, you'll loose fuel volume with the stock tank. If you cant find anyone who has previously done this, then you'll be the engineering pioneer, so get ready to stop riding for a while, as you tune. The FS series BMW 650's are singles, and fuel injected, so a look at thier parts might give you some idea's, and/or doner parts. Basicaly with fuel injection, you tell the engine what it needs at rpms/load/temp etc, and getting rid of lean or fat spots can take some time for a project like this. You need to at least be VERY familiar with modern fuel injection to finish a task like this. Manufactuers and aftermarket companies have $$ and several ppl to acomplish these things. It CAN be done, but unless the market was big enough to sell $1,500 kits to a LOT of ppl, you'll just be doing it for a challenge and a pat on the back, which is'nt enough for some ppl. Then if your really charatable, you won't mide devulging all the details so someone else has it easy. I'm sure you have put some thought into this, but what if you spend all that time and money elswhere on the bike? I am not trying to say you'd be wasting your time, its yours, use it how YOU like, and it would be cool to see it done. Don't expect fuel injection to turn it into a bike it is'nt, biggest improvement would be cold starts, and altitude changes, not HP or MPG. CV carbs work great, and EFI barely beats them. The $300 bones that the carb kit on here cost, would be a much better choice, if you wanted to be riding soon with extra zip and maybe even MPG. Manufactuers are using EFI now a days because they all do and cost has come down, and EFI can keep a tune longer than carbs, so EPA is happy. Really if EPA cared they would bring back catalytic carbs that got extreme MPG, but the oil companies put lead in the fuel years ago to kill the catalyist in the carb,(to cushion the vavles was white lie) so extreme MPG carbs would disapear, and then when ppl forgot about the carbs, they quit puting lead in the fuel(also so they could use catalytic converters on the exaust, which lead kills), but even now there are "detergents" in the fuel that would kill catalytic carbs. OK, I have bla bla blabed enough, so much so, that I see justin has posted what I have said, in much more straight foward words. Oh yeah, when Harley put EFI on thier bikes they found they idled too good, so they had to tweak it to get the potato potato idle that sells so well.  The foam in the factory seat reshapes VERY easy(there is way too much foam anyway) with a dual orbiting sander, shape it concave and back, and it is very comfortable, but if you take much off you'll have to make a new cover to fit rite. Sewing machine, $15 of stretch vinyl,hevy duty needles and upolstery thread is all it takes. I think I've efectivly left everything in soup form.
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Re: Just wanted to say Hi and have a question
Reply #4 - 02/27/08 at 05:47:18
 
I more or less was thinking of the ability to tune the engine over the whole powerband to my liking.  And have switchable fuel/spark tables for economy and power.  I have an old Palm Pilot which I could use to tune the fuel and spark tables of the megasquirt unit.
Of course a closed loop EFI conversion would require some major modifications, since as already mentioned, needs a wideband O2 sensor, TPS, engine temp sensor, air intake temp, maybe EGR etc etc etc.

But I think an open loop, alpha-n driven setup with just a TPS, rpm pickup and air intake temp could be sufficient enough to run a nice tune and spark advance for great drivability.

Initially I might go with the carb setup which is offered here and see how the bike responds and maybe tinker around with the replaced original carb and see how much it would take to convert it into EFI.

My whole motivation behind this, I need a challenge and I love to tinker with EFI.  Of course, presenting a carb to EFI conversion might woo and ahhh a few chicks too, but that's less of my concern, as I'm married already  Grin

Thomas
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Re: Just wanted to say Hi and have a question
Reply #5 - 02/27/08 at 06:01:50
 
The popping of the exhaust is due to the lean jetting that the machine comes stock with to meet the EPA import standards. Rejetting one or two sizes up should help.
Jerking while starting from a stop is more likely a clutch problem. Possibly a warped plate. Are you sure that your hand is maybe not the problem. If you are used to a multi cylinder bike, the heavy flywheel may impart a different feel for you.  Add a little RPM before slipping out the clutch.
Change the saddle or have it customised by a good saddle builder.

Bike Fixer
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Re: Just wanted to say Hi and have a question
Reply #6 - 02/27/08 at 12:03:42
 
Hi, and welcome.  I inquired about 6 mo's ago if anyone had done EFI ..no positive responses.  Similar issue  in reverse(?)over at the Bonneville Forum, now that Triumph has gone EFI on the Bonnie (Neatly camoflaged) in a carb body for that olde time look. Lotsa folks there, like here, love the carb.  Best of luck and keep us posted, might be a few others who would like to switch to EFI.
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