SuzukiSavage.com - pistons again!

tbalam Full Member Offline I like my kids, but I love my bike ;) Posts: 172 Fac o' the Sn Gender:	pistons again! 02/24/07 at 11:24:49 anyone notice that you can buy factory oversized pistons for the savage. at least the microfiche from ron ayers and bike bandit show it and you can order it for around 80? I think it might be fun to have an oversized, HC piston in the savage. can you use a 97mm, hc, piston from a harley or other maker?
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #1 - 02/24/07 at 16:13:02 Yep. I believe that Wiseco has one that can be used to bump her up to 700 easily. I think that Lancer has an overbore in his too.
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tbalam Full Member Offline I like my kids, but I love my bike ;) Posts: 172 Fac o' the Sn Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #2 - 02/24/07 at 17:38:10 Lancer, Can you comment on your experience here. What size piston did you go with, and where did you get it? Did you do anything to up the compression ratio?
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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #3 - 02/24/07 at 19:22:47 Do a search on Wiseco and set the days back to 800 or so - we've been kicking this around for a long time - last year all was that was needed for them to make us a 9.5:1 overbore custom was an order for 24@$122 each - wonder if we have enough interest yet?
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LANCER

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Re: pistons again!
Reply #4 - 02/24/07 at 20:01:13

tbalam wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:

Lancer,

Can you comment on your experience here. What size piston did you go with, and where did you get it? Did you do anything to up the compression ratio?

I had engine damage and had to bore it. At the time I just wanted to go to the next size up so that there would be room for another bore later if something happened again. So I went from the stock 94 to a 95, which makes for 667cc +/- I believe. I sent the cylinder and new piston to Bore Tech (www.bore-tech.com) for the bore/hone work and also had the silicone carbide treatment done at the same time. Very reasonable work, even today the price for the bore/hone is just $60 and the silicone carbide is just $115 ... and worth every penny !

"BORE TECH has developed the only permanent surface enhancement process for motorcycles and small engine cylinders for longevity and power robbing friction reduction. There is no spray coating or plating for cast iron liners that compares to the performance of CARBIDE BORE PROCESS cylinders.

Immediate break-in

Improved ring seal

Superior oil retention

Less friction provides lower temperatures

Leaner fuel mixtures possible

Excellent wear characteristics

Anti-siezure properties

The CARBIDE BORE PROCESS combines the best features of ceramics and cast iron cylinder bores. This evolutionary process of impregnating diamond-hard silicon carbide particles into the cylinder wall is truly a technical advance directed at the problem of bore surface wear. The advantages of the process are compelling"

This technique is not a coating that builds up or is a layer on top of the base metal, thus cannot be used to restore worn bores back to size. Imbedding the carbide particles into a straight, round bore locks the ceramics into the pores of the base metal in a manner that prohibits the particles from dislodging. A "Plateau" finish bearing curve provides good oil retention sites with optimum surface for ring sealing

During the development, carried out by BORE TECH on the CARBIDE BORE PROCESS, all types of engines have been tested in various forms of competition. The extreme conditions of racing provided us with quick and accurate data feedback. Motorcycle roadracers, motocross, and drag racers to snowmobile, watercraft, karts, and mini-sprints have gained phenomenal engine life as a result of this technology

BORE TECH uses mechanical infusion technology to force fine particles of silicon carbide under pressure into the cyclinder wall. The carbide being twelve times harder than steel, gives an unusually wear-resistant surface... one that is also oil wettable. The result is a cylinder that won't wear out (at least, not at anything approaching the normal rate) but actually breaks in like plain iron.

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tbalam Full Member Offline I like my kids, but I love my bike ;) Posts: 172 Fac o' the Sn Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #5 - 02/24/07 at 20:23:45 Did you do anything to increase the compression ratio? Also FYI, wisco has the ls650 under the offroad bikes. i dont think these pistons are HC ratio though. http://www.pistons-online.com/motorcycle1.asp?br=Suzuki&st=43&end=43 And ross pistons will make 4 pistons for $100 each.
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azjay Serious Thumper Offline aridzona... its a dry heat Posts: 816 Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #6 - 02/25/07 at 05:22:51 just the act of putting a larger piston in the hole, and not changing the combustion chamber size, raises the compression ratio. would need numbers to calculate how much.
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Savage_Greg

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Re: pistons again!
Reply #7 - 02/25/07 at 07:21:03

azjay wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:

just the act of putting a larger piston in the hole, and not changing the combustion chamber size, raises the compression ratio. would need numbers to calculate how much.

Ah, it's not just a larger piston. It's a larger piston in a larger hole which also changes the combustion chamber size (displacement). Did I read that wrong?

The stroke is 94 MM.

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Trippah Serious Thumper Offline I ride, therefore I am. Posts: 2517 central Mass Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #8 - 02/25/07 at 16:18:06 Greg- are you talking about displacement while azjay was talking compression ratio's?
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #9 - 02/25/07 at 16:43:05 Trippah wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02: Greg- are you talking about displacement while azjay was talking compression ratio's? Yep. But my point is the reverse. Larger displacement doesn't mean higher compression. But then if you'll notice, I also questioned my interpretation...
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Rockin_John

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Re: pistons again!
Reply #10 - 02/26/07 at 15:17:10

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:

Yep. But my point is the reverse. Larger displacement doesn't mean higher compression.

But then if you'll notice, I also questioned my interpretation...

It is an interesting point. Just exactly how would increasing bore affect the compression ratio?

More fuel/air squished into a smaller(?) or larger(?) chamber?

Personally, it's my opinion that there would be much more power unleashed by a little higher compression ratio than a tiny bit of cylinder displacement... But if both could be had for the same money... why not?

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barry68v10

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Re: pistons again!
Reply #11 - 02/26/07 at 15:39:04

All things being equal, a larger bore and piston(s) in the same motor will increase compression ratio. But that assumes all things are truely equal. If you had a piston with the same deck height, valve reliefs, and ring positions a larger piston and bore would increase the compression ratio, but......what are we talking here 0.020-0.060 inches?!? That's not a good way to increase compression ratio. You'd be better off hooking up a hair dryer with the heating element removed to the intake side and "supercharging" the intake air.

BTW, used that technique on a moped to double the HP. Burned the motor up pretty quickly tho Embarrassed

But that was in my younger days Grin

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Savage_Greg

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Re: pistons again!
Reply #12 - 02/26/07 at 15:45:18

barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:

All things being equal, a larger bore and piston(s) in the same motor will increase compression ratio. But that assumes all things are truely equal. If you had a piston with the same deck height, valve reliefs, and ring positions a larger piston and bore would increase the compression ratio, but......what are we talking here 0.020-0.060 inches?!? That's not a good way to increase compression ratio. You'd be better off hooking up a hair dryer with the heating element removed to the intake side and "supercharging" the intake air.

BTW, used that technique on a moped to double the HP. Burned the motor up pretty quickly tho Embarrassed

But that was in my younger days Grin

Sure it will, but not as significantly as changing the squish area in the combustion chamber or changing the stroke.

Simply a larger piston like this one won't do so much that you'll be needing more octane. Yet, I think that Wiseco will make you a crowned piston with valve clearance.

You moped intake heater is interesting. Turbo 2 stroke

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barry68v10 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 955 Maryland Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #13 - 02/26/07 at 15:50:32 You could also use a mechanical smog pump for the same purpose (driven mechanically instead of electrically, of course )
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: pistons again! Reply #14 - 02/26/07 at 20:54:27 barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02: You could also use a mechanical smog pump for the same purpose (driven mechanically instead of electrically, of course ) There's another member in here with a Motobecane. Wonder if that would work for him
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