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pistons again! (Read 35 times)
vroom1776
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #30 - 03/23/07 at 23:49:29
 
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Mr 650
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #31 - 03/24/07 at 02:29:11
 
$100/ slug for a plain ol' Ross Flat top piston ???Roll Eyes
Or $1272.24 for a set of eight Wiseco? Shocked
You  can but a whole set of Chevy pistons for $100. Should be more like $20-$50 if a Chevy will cross ref.
Anyone  to know the rod length, the pin height or piston weight of our 650?
I did some surfing awhile back and I think a 307 Chevy flat top piston  diameter is within .001 or .002. of the LS650. I expect a piston could be cross referenced.

I don't think a piston supplier would have to do to much work to make a LS650 slug, from a good forged or Hypereutectic Chevy (or Ford) Flat top piston to raise the compression one point to 9.5:1, they are available in many overbore sizes.
I am hoping someone might have access to both pistons and could tell us the pin locations.
It would be sweet if one of those could be found to fit or one that could easily be modified to fit the 650.
Of course really good race pistons like this Manley would be more but not $100 each!

Noticed the Ford 5.0 litre DOHC Cobra crate motors also use our 3.70" bore;


I forget the recipe that Burt Monroe used to make his, 2 parts Chevy & one part Ford?  Grin

tbalam wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Did you do anything to increase the compression ratio?

Also FYI, wisco has the ls650 under the offroad bikes. i dont think these pistons are HC ratio though.

http://www.pistons-online.com/motorcycle1.asp?br=Suzuki&st=43&end=43

And ross pistons will make 4 pistons for $100 each.

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LANCER
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #32 - 03/24/07 at 08:29:04
 
Deck clearance ~ 0.157" (4mm)
Compressed gasket ~ 0.030"  (0.78mm)
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verslagen1
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #33 - 03/24/07 at 09:44:27
 
do the valves open below the head?
how about with the new hi-perf cam?
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LANCER
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #34 - 03/24/07 at 13:48:09
 
The valves open 0.153" down below the head surface toward the piston.  The deck clearance is 0.157", so the clearance between the piston and the edge of the valve when it is open is the thickness of the head gasket when it is compressed.  
With those numbers, the only way to get the compression up is to machine valve grooves into the piston which would then enable machining of the cylinder to raise the compression.
If an older DR650 piston has the valve grooves in it already then that might do it.
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LANCER
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #35 - 03/24/07 at 14:10:17
 
LANCER wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Deck clearance ~ 0.157" (4mm)
Compressed gasket ~ 0.030"  (0.78mm)



ERROR ... ERROR ... that should have been 8mm or 0.315 for the deck clearance.

So there is room for shaving the cylinder.
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LesGolden
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #36 - 03/24/07 at 15:02:40
 
it's amazing how much information you guys have! So with 8mm clearance we should have room for the 2mm taller pistons? and no valve cutouts! I think we have two takers on 96mm higher compression pistons, can we get two more?
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verslagen1
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #37 - 03/24/07 at 16:04:48
 
Lancer, I take it the .153" is with your high lift cams?

And how much are we talking here for a piston?
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barry68v10
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #38 - 03/24/07 at 18:37:02
 
Guys, one thing to keep in mind here is this:  

With all else equal (yes, I know that's a big a$$umption), higher compression will simply move the same torque curve higher on the RPM scale, yielding higher peak HP...

BUT....

you WILL sacrifice some low-end torque as a result.

If I could figure out how to get my DYNO2000 results posted here, I'd show you all how this works  Undecided
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #39 - 03/25/07 at 23:39:18
 
Interesting, I would like to see a simulation too.
Thinking it would increase area under the entire curve, like more compression increases efficiency up & down the scale, resulting in a more pronounced, higher curve everywhere.

barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Guys, one thing to keep in mind here is this:  

With all else equal (yes, I know that's a big a$$umption), higher compression will simply move the same torque curve higher on the RPM scale, yielding higher peak HP...

BUT....

you WILL sacrifice some low-end torque as a result.

If I could figure out how to get my DYNO2000 results posted here, I'd show you all how this works  Undecided

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LANCER
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #40 - 03/26/07 at 04:20:58
 
Quote:
Thinking it would increase area under the entire curve, like more compression increases efficiency up & down the scale, resulting in a more pronounced, higher curve everywhere.


I do not have the hard data to back it up at this time but I think it would raise the entire curve.
When an explosive is compressed more the resulting energy release from the explosion will be greater regardless of the rpm.
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barry68v10
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #41 - 03/26/07 at 14:44:04
 
Quote:
I do not have the hard data to back it up at this time but I think it would raise the entire curve.
When an explosive is compressed more the resulting energy release from the explosion will be greater regardless of the rpm.


As it turns out, increased compression also increases the speed of the burn.  This is bad at lower RPMs since more of the fuel is burned during pistion compression which has the OPPOSITE effect than desired.  At low RPM's, slower burn is better.  As RPMs increase, less fuel has time to burn on compression stroke and more power is produced with remaining fuel after TDC.

Again, keep in mind this a$$umes all things are equal.  You can retard timing at low RPMs to counteract, but remember:  the higher the compression ratio, the more energy the pistion bleeds on the compression stroke.
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barry68v10
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #42 - 03/26/07 at 14:50:11
 
Remember:  gasoline engines ignite the mixture before top-dead-center.  If we were talking a diesel which ignited at TDC, then higher compression (to a point) would result in higher power.  This is one reason why diesels have so much more torque...they can ignite at TDC, and therefore have the ability to use 35:1 compression.
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #43 - 03/26/07 at 15:58:00
 
I will out of the loop for a couple of days, I drive a truck for a living. So if we decide to do a group buy I am in, but it will be Thursday before I have a chance to check back. I am also going to get one of them thar improved bumpsticks...... TongueI need more torque, more torque gooood Tongue
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Re: pistons again!
Reply #44 - 03/26/07 at 18:42:34
 
I will get with Ross pistons and give them all our information.  It looks like for a couple bucks extra (10-20) we can get them lightened and coated, i'm not sure i need the coating, but lighter would be nice, maybe give a few more rpm.  Also not sure if rings are included in the price, i'll see what their's cost included.  work is keeping me busy right now but i will update as soon as i have the information.  Unless someone else beats me to it.  Then i will just buy the piston.
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You just gotta take the high road
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Raise your face and smile baby
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on your ls650
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