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Help with engine repair (Read 6 times)
Creator_11
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Help with engine repair
03/27/06 at 09:40:34
 
Last riding season I managed to put on an aftermarket muffler, and to make a long story short never rejet the carb. It ran lean and hot all summer during one of our hottest summer here in Canada.

In Sept. I was going for my last ride on thanksgiving weekend on the way home, when the bike started to clunk.

It shut off and would not start anymore. I sat in a convenience store for about 1hr. It cooled off and I noticed the oil was low. I bought some oil from the gas station topped it up, and after several tries was able to get the bike started again. I proceed on my way home, as i pulled in the riveway it started to idle rough, and cough.

I turned the bike off immediately. And then noticed the back tire was coated with oil. In a span of 10min I had lost a quart of oil, which was all over the underside of the bike and back tire.  :'(

Its spring time now, and I want to fix the girl.

I am starting to strip it this coming weekend and hopefully diagnose the problem and fix it.

The local mechanics said I may have blew my head gasket, they said it would cost about $1500 for them to fix my problem, but honestly I just picked up a Clymer manual and would like the challenge of repairing it.  Smiley

Its an 1987.

Could you guys offer up any advise now, on where I should start to look for the problem? What steps you guru would do first in order to troubleshoot it. Anything?

I plan on rejet the carb at this time, and a general tune up once I can repair/replace engine parts.
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bentwheel
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #1 - 03/27/06 at 11:26:41
 
The first thing I would do is trace the oil back to the source. If you lost one quart within 10 min, then you have a major leak. It sounds like a seal has blown especially since the oil made it down onto the tire indicating the leak is from the bottom portion of your engine. I can't imagine your head gasket causing all this oil loss. The head gasket seals compression gasses, not oil. Start your engine and look listen and feel for escaping compression at the entire head gasket area. Clean the area and spray some soapy water on the area and this may help in diagnosing the leak. Like I said I doubt this is your problem, but you can start by eliminating this idea. Next, check your air filter and air box for oil saturation. Your crankcase ventilation may be diverting excessive gasses and oil. Check these three things and check back with your findings. I love a mystery.
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Creator_11
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #2 - 03/30/06 at 08:34:45
 
Ok I am going to check the head gasket this weekend but last night did some cheking and it looks like the oil is leaking from the crankcase

I also notice some oil on the fins, looks more like sweating. So I'll need to fix the infamous plug oil leak as well.

But the real problem is coming from the crankcase, it just keeps dripping out of it even with the engine off right now.

Any suggestions on this?

Undecided
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slavy
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #3 - 03/30/06 at 12:00:53
 
Trase where is the oil comming from- what part of the case. If it is really an oil leak it is either a crack in the case either one of the seals or gaskets poped out.
I am thinking about the statement- the bike was running rough. Even with no oil in the case the engine will still run good if You don't have other issues.
Is it possible that You have a carb. problem and You are overfilling the case with gas?
When the oil+gas  mix in the case is cold the bike runs OK, but when it heats up- the fumes choke and kill the engine.
In the same moment the case is overfilled with this "magic" mix and You are splashing it  thru the breather.
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Creator_11
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #4 - 03/30/06 at 12:36:02
 
That actually seems probable.

Why... because the bike went dead went I went to town and I had to wait about 1hr for the bike to cool down before I could finally get it started again, once I did I started heading back home and that when I saw all the oil pissin out on the back wheel and by then the bike was warm and started to run rough.

And just last night sure enough there was a brand new oil spot under the bike in the garage, but that could be coming from the the plug oil leak.

So how does this magic mixture exactly happen, and whats the resolution, just out of curiosity.


You guys are awesome here, I hope you all know that!!!!!
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Creator_11
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #5 - 03/30/06 at 14:16:58
 
bump  Cheesy
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Kropatchek
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #6 - 03/31/06 at 02:30:47
 
If you've been running hot and lean there's apossibility that you burned a hole in the piston. Check the compression .

Greetz
Kropatchek ???
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HighPlainsThumper
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #7 - 03/31/06 at 03:56:37
 
Creator_11 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
I turned the bike off immediately. And then noticed the back tire was coated with oil. In a span of 10min I had lost a quart of oil, which was all over the underside of the bike and back tire.  :'(

Its an 1987.

Could you guys offer up any advise now, on where I should start to look for the problem? What steps you guru would do first in order to troubleshoot it. Anything?

I plan on rejet the carb at this time, and a general tune up once I can repair/replace engine parts.  


I have a 1987 also.  In order to trace an oil leak, first clean up the engine really well.  Buy some engine degreaser, spray all oily areas, get it really clean of oil, dirt, grease, etc.

A clean surface will reveal oil leaks easily by evidence of a wet spot.

Next, get a bright light and shine it all over the engine area.  Notate any damp areas with oil.  If no oily areas appear, start up the bike.  While engine is running, run that bright light over all parts with a careful eye.

If it is leaking as much as you say, you should be able to find your leak and in relatively short order.

One thing that comes immediately to mind is if the infamous leaking plug over the right front head stud over the right head cooling tunnel has final come completely loose and popped out (or into the camshaft chamber), you will have oil coming out of the cooling tunnel area.

Normally, the head leak problem will be more of a nuisance, you'll notice increased oil consumption and oil sprayed on the battery box exterior and on the muffler shield below.

With the head as damp as you say it is, my guess is unless something has caused the case to fracture or one of your shaft seals (output driveshaft to which belt pulley is mounted seal, shift lever shaft seal, transmission neutral wire grommet total failure) or oil filter cover O-ring has failed, it is most likely the aforementioned cooling tunnel plug has popped completely out of its mount.

http://www.bikebandit.com is one source that sells on-line parts for the Savage.  However, their part numbers are not the dealer numbers, their pricing AFAIK matches that of dealer and they seem faithful.  You can get a better idea of what you are dealing with through their detailed parts diagrams.

Regarding your rough running, that could be anything from a bad plug, CDI box starting to fail, carburetor problems, etc.  Fact your bike was running extra hot could also have a burnt exhaust valve.  Basically some methodic troubleshooting is in order.

Perhaps it is too premature to say it is the CDI box, but if it is, don't mix '80s vintage CDI and magnetic alternator rotor with '90s+ vintage, they are timed and magnetised differently.  If you buy a later model year CDI, then you must use the later model year rotor.

Good luck, George (HPT)  Smiley
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Creator_11
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #8 - 03/31/06 at 05:58:33
 
I tore down the engine last night, almost at the head gasket, should be that far tonight.

So it looks like the 2 oil leaks are 1) the plug oil leak and 2) the oil was definetly coming from the crankcase breather because the air filter was just drenched with oil.

I also pulled the spark plug and it was not a nice burnt brown, but all black with lots of soot (burned oil).

So I have a feeling when I get to the head gasket tonight I am going to need to replace the rings, possibly the piston too .

So far its been a very fun and good learning experience. I'll know for sure real soon.

Where is the best place to go to order replacement rings / piston / head gasket?   The rising season is here, LOL and I want to get her up and running very soon. Would online shopping be better or try a dealer?
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Creator_11
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #9 - 04/01/06 at 17:43:18
 
The engine is right down to the piston rod now.

The piston is in good shape, it certinaly has a buildup of carbon on it, and the cylinder looks clean and very smooth. My spark plug was black with burn oil, and my exaust was too. I'm looking at the rings on the piston and they look to be in good shape, but I know I'm going to replace them anyways, along with a new head gasket.

My valves are just coated with carbon, and I plan on sending  them in to a local guy, along with the head to get cleaned up and polished.

But I am happy the piston isn't shot to nuts, but I'm a little baffled since the rings don't look as bad as I was thinking.

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MacAttack
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Re: Help with engine repair
Reply #10 - 04/04/06 at 10:01:50
 
I'm wondering if your fuel tap was in the Prime position somehow... allowing fuel to leak into the crankcase. That might be your only problem, especially if, when this happened, you had a strong odor of gas.
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