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Exhaust port (Read 86 times)
Savage_Greg
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #30 - 03/08/07 at 10:46:18
 
Reelthing wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
oh well just have to find my round tuit one of these days - have a nib late 80's single wall header pipe and megaphone  MAC to port match


If mine works (how's that for positive?), you can send me yours and I'll do it for you.

I just got a couple carbide bits...it's about time to cut metal Tongue
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #31 - 03/08/07 at 12:39:30
 
So far so good.  The valves are out of the head Tongue

Oh, and I forget who asked, but I believe that the paint on the valve springs is supposed to indicate the top of the springs when installed.  All 8 of them are that way.

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Kropatchek
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #32 - 03/09/07 at 02:40:01
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
So far so good.  The valves are out of the head Tongue

Oh, and I forget who asked, but I believe that the paint on the valve springs is supposed to indicate the top of the springs when installed.  All 8 of them are that way.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/HeadValves_2516.jpg


Paintmarks are usualy indicating the strenght of the spring.
The closer windings go on the head, check your SSM for proper explanation.
And while you're at it : replace the valvestem seals.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #33 - 03/09/07 at 04:37:51
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Paintmarks are usualy indicating the strenght of the spring.
The closer windings go on the head, check your SSM for proper explanation.
And while you're at it : replace the valvestem seals.

Oh well, I thought that it made sense since the paint marks were all up...
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klx650sm2002
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #34 - 03/10/07 at 01:50:33
 
Yup still here Greg, pleased to hear you are going to start work on the ex po , remember measure twice cut once.
Go well
Clive W  Cheesy
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LANCER
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #35 - 03/10/07 at 04:32:03
 
Yea, there is nothing a satisfying as cutting for a while and then suddenly remember that you were supposed to check the spec's before starting.    Grin

Then you find out how really good you are when it comes to "seat of the pants flying" with the cutting  tools.   Grin

So far, I am out to 1.492" on the outside edge of the port.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #36 - 03/10/07 at 07:04:48
 
LANCER wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Yea, there is nothing a satisfying as cutting for a while and then suddenly remember that you were supposed to check the spec's before starting.    Grin

Then you find out how really good you are when it comes to "seat of the pants flying" with the cutting  tools.   Grin

So far, I am out to 1.492" on the outside edge of the port.

Lancer and Clive,

Well, I used to be pretty good at doing mold repair work so I hope that hasn't been lost yet Grin

I've finished the cutting, but I didn't go quite that large this time.

I looked close at the head and decided that I might want to maintain the angle that sort of funnels back to the valves on each side.  My thinking was to ensure that that there was a pressure drop through the port while keeping an even flow around the circumference of the opening.  I was also concerned that I might inadvertently cause unequal flow between the 2 valves (assuming they are equal in stock form).

Therefore, I scribed a line around the opening and used the burr to angle the cut all the way around the port.  Since the top and bottom of the port are different from the sides (just in the shape), I decided to only open it up to a maximum that would still maintain a "lip" all the way around.

Using a telescoping gage, the stock opening was 34 mm or 1.340" (my earlier measure was a "guesstimate") , and the end result, was 36 mm or 1.417".  Approximately, opened up 1 mm on a radius.

I also started polishing the port, which is quite a challenge since the valve guides and seats are in place and I can't glass bead the chamber anyway.  Since my rotary tools only extend a couple inches into the port there are unreachable areas, but the outlet is getting a nice mirror finish to it.

Bottom line was that yesterday I spent 6 hours sitting on the "seat of my pants" with my fingers crossed.  I'll post a picture later Tongue

Lancer, did you have the valves reground or even lapp the valves before reassembly?  I think that I may do the latter...
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LANCER
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #37 - 03/10/07 at 07:45:02
 
I have not lapped the valves yet.
I think I will go ahead and have a nice 3 angle job done on it when I take the cylinder in for a shave.
Clive worked out some numbers for me and suggested that I limit the shave to about 0.050" in order to leave room for the valve-to-piston clearance.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #38 - 03/10/07 at 09:13:15
 
My seats look to be in pretty good shape (intake better than exhaust) with not too much carbon.  I think that I'll just lapp 'em a bit and go with it.

Isn't it amazing how a little cam chain issue can grow into a full rebuild?

Tongue
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #39 - 03/10/07 at 21:00:07
 
There you go Clive.  You've been wanting me to do it for a couple years, and I finally got around to it Tongue

Opened the exhaust port up 2 MM to 36 MM and ground as much of the rough casting as I could reach...I didn't want to try grinding through the valve seats in the event I got careless Tongue

After grinding I used polishing compound and felt wheels.



Here's the head turned over.  There isn't much more metal at the top of the port.



Then I went back the intake port that I worked on a little bit 4 years ago.  More polishing.  See how rough the casting is up near the valve guides?  That's the way the whole port used to look like.



And then because I still had a bunch of compound and felt, I decided to clean up the combustion chamber.  No grinding, just polishing.  A lot of it.

I'll lap the valves and seats next...



PS - something about the way the photos get resized, makes the edges of the exhaust port look rough.  They aren't....I sure do wish they'd let photos display 640 pixels wide...
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LANCER
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #40 - 03/10/07 at 22:23:35
 
This is mine so far ...
36.5-37mm ID


Exhaust port still needs a little more work


Intake


Exhaust


Intake port


Intake port closeup...note roughness in first half+ of port which aids in atomization & prevents fuel droplets from clinging to wall.


This is a link that talks about the intake port, well port work in general.  The techniques this guy has found that make POWER.
http://floheadworks.com/Services/tooled_finish.htm



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klx650sm2002
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #41 - 03/11/07 at 03:46:27
 
Great to see you guys doing the port work and hope it works out for you.
Go well.
Clive W  Cheesy
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LANCER
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #42 - 03/11/07 at 04:41:54
 
It's just aluminum, if sometlhing does not work I will just glue it back in.   Grin
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #43 - 03/11/07 at 07:20:54
 
Okay, let's go over this....I see that you went a good bit further in some ways....

First, did you use an aluminum oxide stone?

Then, you also went into the valve cavity where I was too worried about bumping my grinder on the valve seats.  Hmmm.  I might rethink, but then I also need more length on my rotary tools so that I can see where I am going.

As for the exhaust, I notice that you radiused the lip of the exhaust.  Was there any particular reason for that?  Or were you just wanting to remove as much as you could?  I am more worried about opening it greater than the total valve area.

I may go back in here for another look.  Need to measure the total valve area, I think.  Then I may get some more stones and felt wheels.



As for the polishing the intake...There are a couple rules of thought on that.  

- One is that roughness increases atomization, which is true but you reach a a point where there is a trade off.  

- If you think terms of in fluidics, roughness also puts frictional losses on the flow, and that drag will separate droplets.  If you reduce the friction then the velocity will increase.

For my money, I think it will be better to have the highest velocity at the beginning of the intake, which is the smaller diameter.  Then as it the fuel charge gets closer to the valves and splits, the area also gets larger which causes a drop in velocity.  Then in this rougher area, roughness might actually cause more of the turbulent effect that you want.

Just think about water droplets on your car.  When it's clean and waxed they run off.  When it's dirty they don't.  Roughness also gives them something to stick to.



AND OF COURSE...we are talking about thumpers.  This isn't an engine that has multiple pistons and therefore creates anything similar to a steady flow at either the intake or exhaust.  In between suck and blow traffic comes to a stop Tongue
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LANCER
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Re: Exhaust port
Reply #44 - 03/11/07 at 07:44:14
 
This dude Perry Kime has some pretty good stuff on his resume so I thought I would try to replicate his technique.  We shall see if I screw it up or not...that is why the stock head is sitting patiently on the shelf.
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