SuzukiSavage.com - Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?

thehoghunter

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Chop Suey

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Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
03/06/05 at 18:47:33

Clymer's states when adjusting Automatic Decompression Cable that "the actuator shaft should move out of the body 3-5 mm" What does that mean? Does that mean it should actually move to the left or right? What do they mean by 'body'?

Seems to me, the cable pulls upward - the actuator shaft should be the part that goes into the engine which depresses the exhaust rocker arm to allow a slight pressure release. That's my understanding. But reading the Clymer book is just confusing on this. This is in Chapter 3 - page 48 (of the 1986 Savage).

Anyway, what besides this can cause the bike not to crank? No spark - just the machine gun of the starter trying to work. Just charged battery - checked and it's at 12 volts (but still could be bad I guess).

Help before I get the sledge hammer out. Oh, and don't tell me to check internals of the engine - I just put it back together and refuse to open it up again (2 more stripped out bolts - I now am starting to wonder about this "wonderful machine" - I should have just kept adding oil instead of trying to fix the oil leaks. The only part I appreciate is the starter - remove electrial connector - two bolts - slip backwards - lift out. Don't have to take any other parts off to work on the one part. Unlike any other part on the bike. If I didn't get this off my mind, I would be looking for the sledge hammer now!

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bentwheel

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Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
Reply #1 - 03/06/05 at 20:24:33

I know it sounds confusing, so I will decipher the Cylmer technobable. The body the manual refers to is the solenoid. This is probably best checked with the tank removed. First, make sure the engine is set to TDC on the compression stroke. Go to the the de-compression cable on the left side of the engine and follow the cable up and over to the right. The cable ends at the solenoid just under the frame back bone. Now go to the right side of the engine and on the centre of the solenoid will be a rubber cap. Pull it off and you will see a shaft in the centre. This is where you check the measurment. You have to squeeze the solenoid with your hand to make the shaft move outward and then you will make sense of this. With your right hand place your thumb on the solenoid near the centre where the shaft resides and with your index finger reach around the solenoid to the back plastic disc and squeeze together. This will force the shaft from the body and you can measure the distance travelled. Measure the distance from the brass boss protruding from the body (which secures the rubber cap) to the end of the shaft. The suggested measurment is 3mm to 5mm and I found you will get more lever travel if you adjust it to closer to 3mm. The adjustment is made back at the cable at the left side of the engine. There are two nuts on the cable. Loosen one then tighten the other to affect change. I hope this makes sense to you. Let me know how you made out or if you need further help.

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Bentwheel FSO
2006 Suzuki 650 V-Strom
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Reelthing

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Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
Reply #2 - 03/06/05 at 20:40:15

thehoghunter wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:

Anyway, what besides this can cause the bike not to crank? No spark - just the machine gun of the starter trying to work. Just charged battery - checked and it's at 12 volts (but still could be bad I guess).

I'd make real sure it's a good battery, not flooded to the point of fluid lock, and had some spark.

Will the engine spin with the spark plug out? - if so is it blowing fluid out the hole? if you ground the side of the plug to the engine do you have a spark?

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Ed L. Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline "We All go a Little Crazy Sometimes" Norman Bates Posts: 2808 Sunny Florida Gender:	Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression? Reply #3 - 03/07/05 at 12:43:00 Clean the battery terminals and cable ends, sounds like a bit of corosion from winter storage. Luck
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thehoghunter

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Chop Suey

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Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
Reply #4 - 03/07/05 at 15:10:58

Sorry Ed - I don't do 'winter storage'!

Thanks Bentwheel - don't know why Clymers didn't say solenoid in that part - would have made sense then.

Thanks Reelthing - Tried another battery - same issue. That battery I know works since I put it back into my wife's Savage and it started up with no problem. I also found that my battery would not start her bike. So I'm charging another but will probably have to go get a new one.

It has no spark but yet, I don't expect one since it doesn't seem to want to turn over at all. When I had the spark plug out looking for the spark, I never noticed the engine putting out any compression from the spark plug hole (wasn't looking for it mind you, just think I would have noticed it ).

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Gitarzan Serious Thumper 2004 No Login Offline ! Posts: 827 Columbus, Oh, Earth, Solar Sys Gender:	Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression? Reply #5 - 03/07/05 at 15:38:32 Tom, Answer me this, How did you do the U turn to get the air filter that way, and what's that filter thing-a-mabob on the front of the cylinder? It that just a piece of radiator hose, or what?
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thehoghunter

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Chop Suey

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Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
Reply #6 - 03/08/05 at 08:18:22

Sorry, that's classified! If I tell, then I won't have the only Savage with one! Hint: Think plumbing supplies.

The front thing-a-ma-bob is the filter for the engine - hose use to go to the airbox but since I'm not using the airbox (except to hold electronics), a filter is needed for it. See Greg_650's post on pod filters.

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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression? Reply #7 - 03/08/05 at 09:47:56 ??? so does the starter spin the engine when the sparkplug is out?
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klx650sm2002 Serious Thumper Offline The more I learn the less I know. Posts: 2041 Cumbria,England Gender:	Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression? Reply #8 - 03/09/05 at 06:22:39 Yes the starter does spin the engine with the plug out, but put the cap on the plug and the plug to earth so as not to stress the ignition. Clive W
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thehoghunter

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Chop Suey

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Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
Reply #9 - 03/09/05 at 07:57:40

Reelthing asked Quote:

so does the starter spin the engine when the sparkplug is out?

Clive answered Quote:

Yes the starter does spin the engine with the plug out, but put the cap on the plug and the plug to earth so as not to stress the ignition.

So my question is, Clive, when were you in my garage working on my bike? And did you fix it?

Reelthing was asking if the starter is spinning the engine with the plug out when I'm trying to get my bike to crank, not if that actually happens on any bike. Roll Eyes

And Reelthing, I don't have an answer yet - still haven't had a chance to work on it again.

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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression? Reply #10 - 03/09/05 at 10:00:24 Just wondering - good way to eliminate the compress release - if it does not spin the L out of it with the plug out.... that would lead me in a different direction for sure
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Oklahoma_Mike Senior Member 2005 No Login Offline With two on the ground love can be found Posts: 426 Tulsa Oklahoma Area Gender:	Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression? Reply #11 - 03/09/05 at 12:15:27 Thank you bentwheel I also have a 1986 and that had me scraching my head Mike
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thehoghunter

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Chop Suey

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Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
Reply #12 - 03/10/05 at 08:49:03

Okay, tried to crank with known good battery - same problem.

Removed starter - tried turning starter gear (internal to engine where starter motor slips into) with screwdriver. No luck.

Finally gave in to find something I could get the valve timing inspection cover off with. Got it off. Attempt to turn the alternator rotor bolt and can't turn engine clockwise (starter motor not installed at this point) Can turn counter-clockwise.

When I had the left crankcase cover off - it turned either way no problem.

So what can be hanging it up?

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thehoghunter

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Chop Suey

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Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression?
Reply #13 - 03/10/05 at 09:14:41

UPDATE: Loosened the top left crankcase cover bolts - no change - can't turn clockwise. Removed the left crankcase cover bolts holding it on - did not remove the cover, just the bolts. And now I can turn the alternator rotor bolt clockwise/counterclockwise easily. Didn't touch the cover (as in attempt to loosen it up to pull it off) - just removed all the bolts holding it.

Will try putting bolts back in to see what happens as I tighten the left crankcase cover down. First need to go get 17mm socket as it will be easier to do with it then using a wrench. Off to Sears!

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bentwheel Serious Thumper 2005 No Login Offline Ride free, citizen Posts: 658 Sarnia, Ontario, Canada Gender:	Re: Won't crank - what besides Auto Decompression? Reply #14 - 03/10/05 at 09:36:55 In your initial post you said you previously had the engine apart. Did you take apart the internals from the Left side engine cover? If so I'm thinking perhaps the clutch starter set or the starter idle gears are not set properly under pressure when the case is bolted down.
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