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Found something different today about the bike. (Read 199 times)
04Savage04
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #15 - 05/09/24 at 20:13:58
 
I understand but its actually another jet system completely separate from the pilot and main. It allows you to richen the fuel mixture without the use of a choke. The farther you pull it out the more fuel and air flow into the engine where is a choke chokes off the air causing atmospheric to push more fuel through the jets. You can see the fuel enrichment is a much better way to meter fuel into a cold engine. Very precise compared to choking the opening off.  Also because it is a fuel enrichment circuit there is nothing wrong with using it as aux fuel source as needed. Because it basicly like open the main or pilot more but only temporarily.    
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #16 - 05/10/24 at 04:33:41
 
First off our bikes don’t have a choke, they have an enrichment circuit. The enrichment circuit only affects the pilot circuit. So by running with one notch of the enrichment circuit you are making the pilot circuit richer. Proper jetting would allow this to be the default condition.

Secondly, having a richer pilot circuit will have a negligible effect on fuel mileage.

Lastly, you should jet your engine for best throttle response, not fuel mileage.
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #17 - 05/10/24 at 05:04:09
 
Gary_in_NJ wrote on 05/10/24 at 04:33:41:
First off our bikes don’t have a choke, they have an enrichment circuit. The enrichment circuit only affects the pilot circuit. So by running with one notch of the enrichment circuit you are making the pilot circuit richer. Proper jetting would allow this to be the default condition.

Secondly, having a richer pilot circuit will have a negligible effect on fuel mileage.

Lastly, you should jet your engine for best throttle response, not fuel mileage.


Well said Gary.  Completely agree.  

Whether you call it a “variable fuel enrichment” circuit or “variable choke”, it’s not intended or designed to modify the air/fuel mixture under normal riding conditions.

04Savage - your blueing exhaust header is a good sign your bike has been running HOT and LEAN quite some time (probably its whole life).  While some slight blueing is normal, yours is beyond slight.  A light golden color would suggest running a bit cool and rich.

While you can use the “fuel enrichment system” to address the mixture while on the pilot circuit and slightly into transition to the needle, your bike will continue to run lean through the mid range on up.  Eventually harming the motor.  But you being a carb expert, you probably already know that.

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04Savage04
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #18 - 05/10/24 at 07:49:53
 
LOL the bluing on the pipe is from the previous owner running out RT80 FLAT OUT with his buddies to a amusement park in the middle of the summer. He was very proud the bike did a little over 90 for quite a few miles. I drive very slow 50mph max maybe 60 rarely. Jetting perfect isn't that important for what I do.  I have a new pipe on order.
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04Savage04
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #19 - 05/10/24 at 13:26:30
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDsJH1Y9W_U please watch this the pilot got nuttin to do with it.  Grin Although the author of this video explains things wrong it is close. Vacuum DOES NOT PULL FUEL IN, it creates a low pressure area and atmospheric pressure acts on the fuel pushes it through jets etc. Its important to understand how this works. So again the fuel enrichment circuit bypasses ALL jets etc and is a stand alone system that can run the engine. Trust me on this I never lie and I'm always right LMAO.
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #20 - 05/10/24 at 18:34:51
 
Take two identical engines that have been identically tuned.  Let them sit for 24 hrs before warming one of them up for 10 minutes.  Shut the engine down and wait 30 minutes before starting both engines.  

The engines will require different starting procedures or start differently using the same method.

Same place, same time, same climate. Different operating temperatures.

The cold engine will have a lower idle and slower throttle response.  The warmed-up engine will idle higher and be more responsive.

Same place, same time, same climate. Different operating temperatures.
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #21 - 05/10/24 at 19:17:19
 
04Savage04 wrote on 05/10/24 at 13:26:30:
Although the author of this video explains things wrong it is close. Vacuum DOES NOT PULL FUEL IN, it creates a low pressure area and atmospheric pressure acts on the fuel pushes it through jets etc.


So... you say that atmospheric pressure pushes the fuel up to the choke valve? way above the fuel level in the bowl? you might want to rethink that statement.
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #22 - 05/10/24 at 20:52:30
 
Versy, 04/04 is absolutely correct.  It's the atmospheric pressure that does the work.  Same holds true for every fuel circuit in the carburetor.  The bowl is vented to atmosphere so the pressure in the bowl is higher than the pressure in the venturi and enrichment circuit.  The liquid gets pushed out of the bowl and through the fuel circuit to the area with less pressure, in this case, the enrichment passage.  The enrichment passage is just a miniature carburetor that runs around the slide to provide additional air to raise the idle speed and additional fuel in correct proportion for cold operation.

Atmospheric pressure does the work.
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #23 - 05/11/24 at 05:04:35
 
A Bing carburetor - totally different design carb in the video.  As a carb expert, I suggest you do a little homework on the stock carb on our bikes (Mikuni BS40SS).  Lots of good information in the Tech Section.  In the area he describes as the fuel enrichment system, our Mikuni BS40SS has a Transient Enrichment Valve (TEV) that functions somewhat differently and it’s not part of the “choke system”.  Our carbs have a “variable level choke”.

If you can put your pride aside as a carb EXPERT, and always being RIGHT, we are trying to help you LEARN about the carb on our bike.

If you want to be stubborn, go ahead and keep using the choke feature to enrich the fuel mix.  If you want a properly tuned carb, properly rejet it for the correct air/fuel mixture throughout the entire power band.

Regardless of how I ride (idling at stop lights, putting around in the midrange, or WOT), I want a properly tuned carb on my bike.

Believe what you want about the blueing header, but it takes more than a little hard riding to get the color of your pipe.  I’d bet money it’s been blueing a long time (but you nor I, nor the prior owner’s story can prove it).
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« Last Edit: 05/12/24 at 06:32:22 by ThumperPaul »  
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Surviving Philly
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #24 - 05/11/24 at 09:47:16
 
Thumper I've been planning on swithing up my jetting for a while to use the  larger main on my VM36 -- once I get the clutch issues sorted out I'll make a dedicated post regarding carb stuff.

Thanks for the info
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04Savage04
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #25 - 05/12/24 at 08:10:37
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 05/10/24 at 20:52:30:
Versy, 04/04 is absolutely correct.  It's the atmospheric pressure that does the work.  Same holds true for every fuel circuit in the carburetor.  The bowl is vented to atmosphere so the pressure in the bowl is higher than the pressure in the venturi and enrichment circuit.  The liquid gets pushed out of the bowl and through the fuel circuit to the area with less pressure, in this case, the enrichment passage.  The enrichment passage is just a miniature carburetor that runs around the slide to provide additional air to raise the idle speed and additional fuel in correct proportion for cold operation.

Atmospheric pressure does the work.
Grin I worked for GM for a while back in the day, they had something called CARB SCHOOL. They show you everything you need to know to be successful working with carbs. Of course I was one of their best engineers. Like I said probably repaired-rebuilt-modded well over 1000 carbs.  Back in the day I had a pretty good following with the Harley guys and of course every GM car in the area. Unfortueately messing with all the fuel over the years has left me with lots of airway lung troubles. But I can school anyone when it comes to carbs and electrical system engineering, I also do vintage tube amp repair. Please don't hate me.
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04Savage04
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #26 - 05/12/24 at 08:46:23
 
ThumperPaul wrote on 05/11/24 at 05:04:35:
A Bing carburetor - totally different design carb in the video.  As a carb expert, I suggest you do a little homework on the stock carb on our bikes (Mikuni BS40SS).  Lots of good information in the Tech Section.  In the area he describes as the fuel enrichment system, our Mikuni BS40SS has a Transient Enrichment Valve (TEV) that functions somewhat differently and it’s not part of the “choke system”.  Our carbs have a “variable level choke”.

If you can put your pride aside as a carb EXPERT, and always being RIGHT, we are trying to help you LEARN about the carb on our bike.

If you want to be stubborn, go ahead and keep using the choke feature to enrich the fuel mix.  If you want a properly tuned carb, properly rejet it for the correct air/fuel mixture throughout the entire power band.

Regardless of how I ride (idling at stop lights, putting around in the midrange, or WOT), I want a properly tuned carb on my bike.

Believe what you want about the blueing header, but it takes more than a little hard riding to get the color of your pipe.  I’d bet money it’s been blueing a long time (but you nor I, nor the prior owner’s story can prove it).
You can believe what you want but trust me that blue pipe is NOT from lack of fuel. Its quite just the opposite. Relax take breath and don't worry about it.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Found something different today about the bike
Reply #27 - 05/12/24 at 11:39:10
 
Peace out, no sweat.  Ride it on the choke rather than jet it properly.  Your bike, your ride.  
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