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Message started by RanDaMan on 05/19/14 at 09:30:50

Title: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/19/14 at 09:30:50

>:(

Ok Guys, here we go.

I have an aftermarket 8cell, sealed lithium ion battery from ballistic batteries, I have had my bike for 3 years and after every winter when I go to start her up I have to charge my battery, (isn't a big deal) but when It starts it stays running/driving with no problems at all. All the lights work just fine even the horn but after I shut it off, I can immediately restart the bike but if I let is sit for anywhere around a 1/2 hour or more I need to then again charge my battery? :o these batteries are by no means cheap and def. have enough power to work with the bike which leads me to believe that something else is the cause for the destruction of my batteries, I am on number 3 and if I want to ride this year I have to buy another :-[ please help me figure this out :'(

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Dave on 05/19/14 at 10:13:26

Lithium Ion baterries will last a long time.......but they will not tolerate being discharged or overcharged even a single time. I am not sure why you need to charge your battery every spring, as the LiIon holds the charge a very long time. You must have something that is dragging the charge down while the bike is turned off.

The Ballistic battery does not have any internal circuitry to balance the cells, and they recommend that you buy their charger which also balances the cells.

It sounds to me like you are doing something the Ballistic Battery doesn't like. I suggest you give the EarthX battery a try this year, it has circuitry inside that balances the cells.....and I also suggest that you never hook up a battery maintainier to a LiIon as the instructions for my EarthX suggested that you should not do that....in fact they don't want you charging it unless absolutely necessary.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by verslagen1 on 05/19/14 at 10:26:53

so a new battery and you're fine for the riding season?
and winter comes along and it sits for however long and then it's dead.
did you ever think to disconnect it over the winter?
It maybe lith ion batteries are not for you.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by old_rider on 05/19/14 at 10:37:14

I'm with Dave on this one, sounds like there is a drain on the system or an errant ground.

Do you have anything with a relay on it? Every relay i've ever installed draws a small amount of power and if left set will drain a battery over time.

A lot of alarm systems claim to "barely" draw power, but if left set they too will drain a battery.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/19/14 at 11:54:31

Dave: That's what was confusing me as to why I had to charge the battery every spring to get it to fire up, the battery is supposed to hold life for over a year with out any type of charging. I would be more than willing to try any other brand of battery at this point because of how bad these have proved to be. (although it could be something I am doing?) my only concern is the size of a different battery, the ballistic battery is really small and that's exactly what I am looking for. discreet. I have never once put the battery on a charger/maintainer until spring comes along and it is low on juice, too low to start the bike. 1 year I jumped the bike with a car, the next I pop started it and the last one I hooked up to a charger, not sure if a special one is required but it did the trick to get the bike started. all 3 times I drove around plenty long enough to let the bike charge the battery, but all 3 times I have needed to recharge/jump/pop start or replace it. :( I will look into the earthX on your recommendation though! :)

Verslagen1: Yes, every year I replace the battery and she is a trouble-less beauty. Every morning (given the weather permits) I go out she starts right up with no hesitation. Then I let her sit for 4 months maybe 5 for winter and I find that my battery needs to be charged. I haven't disconnected it yet over winter to see if it survives, if I get another one this year I will definitely be doing just that. I just want something small and sealed that will get me started every morning.

old_rider: The only thing I can say is I haven't changed a thing to the stock electrical layout. I don't know what could be doing it but I am getting really tired of having to buy a new EXPENSIVE battery to ride around for 1 season.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Dave on 05/19/14 at 11:58:09

Yep.....Definetely disconnect the battery at the end of the riding season this year.

My EarthX sat in my bike for 4-5 months this year.....and it fired right up when the time came.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/19/14 at 12:01:48

Dave,

It sounds like the EarthX will be worth giving a try this year. Do you happen to have a model number or hyperlink for the same one in your bike? It would be very much appreciated! Thank You! :D

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by old_rider on 05/19/14 at 12:02:46

Maybe remove it over the 4 month time frame... I have also gone to a small lithium ion for a later rebuild this year.

I will keep an eye on it though, thanks to your post.

Only thing that I see could be causing your grief is a ground somewhere then. Did you make a new harness for your small battery or just extend it with some other cables? Perhaps one of those newer connections is shorting?

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/19/14 at 12:08:48

old_rider:

My ground should be the same as the stock ground position. I bridged the wires to reach down lower where the little shelf on the exhaust bracket is. I believe the shelf is for something required in California.

I was also told that my rectifier/regulator could be at fault but I do not know how to tell if this is the case.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by old_rider on 05/19/14 at 12:19:55

Go here for that

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1245984387

The tech section has a "table of contents" post... go there for anyting you find is causing problems....lots of answers there.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/19/14 at 12:26:19

Thank you, and another thank you to everyone who replied to this thread! I think I will be ordering the EarthX this year and I will follow up at the beginning of next season with comments and comparisons. :)

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Dave on 05/19/14 at 12:28:52

I used the ET12A....it is $ 169. I wanted the small size and 12 Amps. The 6A is the same size - but half the power and $ 40 cheaper.

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/etx12a/

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/19/14 at 12:31:22

Dave, Thank you very much!

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by verslagen1 on 05/19/14 at 12:55:22

10232C06230F232C420 wrote:

I was also told that my rectifier/regulator could be at fault but I do not know how to tell if this is the case.

That's quite possible or it could be another component.
But there's no particular test for current drain while off as far as I know.
If you have a DVM or digital volt meter with an amp setting I'd disconnect the positive lead of the battery and connect the amp meter.
key off the current should be zero. If not I'd disconnect component at a time till it went to zero.

There's a couple of components that have caused trouble from time to time. And if the wiring diagram is to believed than they are powered all the time. The decomp timer over the carb is one. A few of them have filled up with water, corroded and even activate the starter in the middle of the night.
The rectumfryer usually doesn't give anyone troubles, but will get hot when overcharging. Don't know if this is a symptom of a battery issue or rectumfryer.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by eruby on 05/20/14 at 12:34:01

Ok the old myth about the "concrete will drain a battery" has come up again in some local conversation. Old timers (I'm 52) were convinced that if you sat an automobile battery on concrete, it would kill the battery. I had thought this was just a myth or maybe something to do with older battery design but today's batteries are encased in plastic so I didn't think it's an issue. A buddy of mine (younger than me) told me the other day to put a block of wood under my stand or I'll be buying a new battery. The kickstand on concrete will kill my battery. True or false?

Is your stand on concrete?

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/20/14 at 12:39:44

Yes my kickstand was on concrete. I have never heard the saying before but its worth giving a try to shim wood under the stand this upcoming winter

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by verslagen1 on 05/20/14 at 12:45:37

Quote:

Car batteries used to be encased in hard rubber, a substance that was porous enough that battery acid could seep through it and create a conductive path through the damp concrete, draining the battery. The cases of today’s batteries, however, are made of sturdier stuff that far better contains their contents than those of yesteryear. As well, time has brought technological improvements to the seals around the posts and the vent systems.

These days, the problem of car battery electrolyte seepage and migration has been all but eliminated. Says battery manufacturer Yuasa, "Nowadays, containers are made from a solid plastic that does not allow any current to flow through it, so the batteries do not discharge, even if they sit in a few inches of water."

Interestingly, some experts (including Car Talk's Click and Clack) believe that storing car batteries on concrete floors might actually be a better idea than keeping them on shelves or other surfaces because the cold of the floor works to slow the self-discharge (leakage) rate.

Barbara "cold comfort" Mikkelson

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/battery.asp#jDjskJj8xtytCTsR.99

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Dave on 05/20/14 at 12:57:11

Yep......doesn't matter what your kick stand is touching. Mine was on concrete all winter......and it started just fine.

I also had a spare auto battery that a friend gave me sitting on concrete for the last 6 months, and when my Avalanche battery went dead I put the spare one in and the Avalanche fired right up.

Old battery rumor that needs to be allowed to die........

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by eruby on 05/20/14 at 14:02:13

That's what I thought but it came up about 2 weeks ago and then this and I was just thinking :-/

382B3C3D222F292B207F4E0 wrote:

Quote:

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Dave on 05/21/14 at 10:11:49

Funny thing about the theory that sitting on concrete will suck the charge out of a battery. Most batteries are stored on metal shelves or mounted in the vehicle on a metal support....that is just about as good of a conductor as anything.......why doesn't that suck the charge out?

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/21/14 at 11:09:56

I remember last year someone told me that it might be a problem with my stator? I don't really know if this could be causing the problem or what is even does? can anyone tell me if that's a possibility? :-?

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Dave on 05/21/14 at 12:49:40

If the bike runs and charges and works fine all riding season....but only fails during the off season.....not sure why that would be a stator issue.

You need to do a test. Disconnect the ground cable, and place a ammeter, ohm meter or small 12v light bulb between the terminal and cable with the ignition switch off. When you complete the circuit with ammeter or light bulb.....you should still have an open circuit. Don't turn on the switch while you do this....or you will most likely cook your test meter (you won't hurt the light bulb).

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Steve H on 05/21/14 at 15:17:59

Could be a leaky diode in the rectifier. Any aftermarket stuff added into the wiring.

I whole heartedly agree with remove the cable from the battery and install something to measure current flow between the terminal and cable end. If any current is flowing, there is a problem somewhere. As has been said before, start disconnecting until you stop the current flow.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by RanDaMan on 05/22/14 at 04:50:19

Dave:

I will have to give that test a try today or over this weekend, just to be sure, Step 1, disconnect ground wire, Step 2, connect meter to ground wire and positive terminal? :-?

If there is no current what would this indicate? Just that the battery is bad? or would I be able to pick up more info from this test?

Also, I ordered my earthx battery and hope to have it in and riding for good by this weekend. 8-)

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by Dave on 05/22/14 at 05:11:32

083B341E3B173B345A0 wrote:

No....not the positive terminal. You want to disconnect the negative terminal and put the meter (or small bulb) between negative terminal and negative cable. You are looking to see if anything is completing the circuit and causing current to flow when the ignition switch is off.

Dave

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by ihasabike on 05/22/14 at 05:44:52

The storage temp on lithium ion batteries is -4º F to 140º F ( -20º C to 60º C). Living in Massachusetts, I imagine it gets colder than -4º F during the winter, which will kill your battery unless you keep it in a heated garage. I recommend uninstalling the battery and taking it indoors for the winter. Any time the lithium batteries are going to go unused for more than two weeks, RC hobby folks recommend putting a "storage charge" on the cells using a balance charger with a storage mode, sticking them in a ziplock bag, and storing them in the fridge.

Title: Re: Every year my battery dies!? why?!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/14 at 10:56:10

I keep all my flashlight / electronic device batteries in the fridge. I have a little tester & some of them are rechargeable, & have different chargers & a timer, and a box in the shop where all dead batteries go. One really handy battery user is a set of walkie talkies. Its amazing just how many times a guy needs to tell the wife something, or she needs to remind him of something. Saves a bunch of hiking from shop to home & back.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/14 at 11:40:25

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