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Message started by Gyrobob on 03/22/11 at 05:31:43

Title: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 03/22/11 at 05:31:43

I searched for some posts on how to redo the fork seals, but couldn't find any.  I would have thought with the zillions of posts here, that someone would have documented that procedure.

Since our double CS-1 effort is underway nicely (http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/), we are thinking that now might be a good time to redo the seals, since all four forks are out on on the bench.

None of the forks were leaking badly, but all of them had a least a little film of oil on the stanchions.

On a related subject, where's the best place to get the seals, and where can we get the gaiters shown in other posts here?

On an unrelated subject, how do we attach pics to posts?  I keep getting an error message when I try to attach small (~150kb) .jpg files.

Thanks for any info,

Bob

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 03/22/11 at 06:18:50

I replaced my seals. Whether I did a good job of it remains to be seen.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/1ecfa476.png

You get the old ones out by pulling off the wipers (3 in the drawing above) and removing the retaining clip (4), then yank the fork out of the slider. The seal (5) will come out with the fork.

A bronze bushing (7) is seated in a recess on the bottom of the fork. I didn't change that. Ignore this. It's wrong. The bushing isn't in the recess. Sorry for the mistake.

There's a small aluminum cap (11) that fits in a recess in the bottom of the fork. It might come out with the fork tube, then fall on the floor and roll to an inconvenient place, or it might stay at the bottom of the slider. Just be sure it's in the bottom of the fork tube, open end in, small hole out, when you reassemble the fork. A dab of grease on the cap will keep it from falling out while you put things back together.

Slide the old seal off the fork, slide the new one on.

Now this is where it gets tricky. If I were the kind of person who changed fork seals for a living, I'd have a tool that slides down the fork and lets me ram the seal back into place. Or I might have kludged up a piece of pipe or something. Instead, I happend to have ordered an extra pair of washers that go under the seal (6). So I slid the old ones on top of the new seal and used a punch and hammer to tap the seal into place, working bit by bit around the fork, until all the seal was below the groove for the clip (4).

Getting the clip back in requires some coordination and patience. Make sure to push it well into the groove.

Then push the wiper back into place (I got new ones) and you're done.

I got the seals and a crapload of other parts from cheapcycleparts.com. Maybe I should have gotten a fork seal tool from them while I was at it.  ;D

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 03/23/11 at 10:46:43

Thanks huge.  this is exactly what I was looking for!

Also, when will we be able to attach pics to posts?

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by verslagen1 on 03/23/11 at 10:56:43

Depending on what your referring too...
Never again
or right now.

Can you upload pictures to SS? no, never again.  pay no attention to the instructions while posting.  If I could change them I would.

But you can link pictures from other file sharing sites like bikepics.
just paste the web addy in your post, highlight it, then select the insert picture icon  http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Templates/Forum/default/img.gif

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Serowbot on 03/23/11 at 11:00:06

Fork boots,... MSR Daystar "series 58", for about $15.00 at aftermarket stores and internet...

Posting pics,...
Read here...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1240899665

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 03/23/11 at 12:05:41


716275746B6660626936070 wrote:
Depending on what your referring too...
Never again
or right now.

Can you upload pictures to SS? no, never again.  pay no attention to the instructions while posting.  If I could change them I would.

But you can link pictures from other file sharing sites like bikepics.
just paste the web addy in your post, highlight it, then select the insert picture icon  http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Templates/Forum/default/img.gif


Photobucket, and maybe some other photo hosting sites, give you and IMG code to copy and paste into your post, meaning no other steps necessary to post them here

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/c3936398.jpg

When you paste it, you'll just see the code, like this:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/5fc1c0b3.png

But you can see the picture in the preview and in the actual post.

Using a photo hosting service isn't the most convenient way to deal with this, because you need to upload the pictures first, but that's life.

[smiley=lipsrsealed.gif]

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 03/24/11 at 07:37:44

Motobuddha, I will be ordering 4 each of parts 3 (dust seal), 5 (fork seal), and 6 (washer).  Why did you order part 6 (washer)?

I just tried to take apart one fork.  The dust seal came off easily, as did the stopper ring (4),.... but even with some pretty hard yanking, I can't get the fork seal to budge.   >:(  

Any techniques for this?
Heat?  
oil soaking?  
dissolve the seal?  
soften the seal with auto trans seal sweller?  
continuous pull on the tube for hours until the seal lets go?  
go find 320 lb BillyBob?


I can see the value of a fork seal installation tool.  Something with half a mm less OD than the seal but with an ID (38mm) that matches the upper tube's OD.  I'll probably have to gently and very patiently go around the seal with a soft punch, tapping it in .001" at a time.

Thanks much,

Bob

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by verslagen1 on 03/24/11 at 08:03:06


Quote:
You get the old ones out by pulling off the wipers (3 in the drawing above) and removing the retaining clip (4), then yank the fork out of the slider. The seal (5) will come out with the fork.


Yank, billybob style till it come out... yeah    :-?

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 03/24/11 at 08:25:23


053B302D202D20420 wrote:
Why did you order part 6 (washer)?


By accident. But it came in handy.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 03/24/11 at 08:44:22


023C372A272A27450 wrote:
I can see the value of a fork seal installation tool.


http://www.rswracing.com/sealdrivers.htm

http://www.moto-pro.com/ProductPage.asp?strMPSID=FSDR37

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=fork+seal+tool,+38mm&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&prmd=ivns&biw=1226&bih=913&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9840170257945766702&sa=X&ei=0GWLTfeYG4Ggtweot_zqDQ&ved=0CE8Q8wIwAA#

Like I said, I might get a tool if I were doing this a lot.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 03/25/11 at 06:16:44

When the stanchion finally pulled out of the lower fork tube, the seal came out fine, as did the bushing.  http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/Forkseal01-1.jpg

In my quest to improvise a tool I tried to get the bushing back inside the recess in the lower tube.  It doesn't want to slide back in there very easily.  Is there a simple way to get it back in the recess?  I hate to force things like this.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 03/25/11 at 06:28:01

I misspoke about the bushing. I was thinking about the piece at the very end of the tube. The bushing slides on and off. Sorry for the confusion. I was working from my faulty memory. Here's the picture from the manual. The bushing is A.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/9cbb96ab.jpg

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 03/25/11 at 09:42:26

Yes,...  Mine looks just like that.

Now, what is the smooth and easy way to get the bushing back into the recess in the lower tube?  When I try to reassemble everything, it all starts sliding together nicely up until the bushing hits the lower tube and won't go in far enough to allow the seal to seat.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 03/28/11 at 09:15:48

I found a $3.00 solution for a fork seal installation tool.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 03/28/11 at 12:09:31

And..........?


Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 03/28/11 at 20:24:19

I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.  

jk    (I really WOULD like a hint, though, about how to get the bushing back in the lower tube)

Anyway, the pics show how a simple 2' length of PVC will slip over the stanchion to seat the seal.  Now if I could figure out how to get the bushing back in,...

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/Forksealtool1a.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/Forksealtool3a.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/Forksealtool4a.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/Forksealtool2a.jpg

$2.97 at Lowe's

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 04/02/11 at 09:33:19

I took one of my fork legs apart to see if I could get a better answer to Gyrobob's problem. So, to review, here are the various parts we're talking about:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/9cbb96ab.jpg

A - bushing
B - washer
C- seal

Here is the inside of the fork bottom. The arrow is pointing to the groove the bushing is supposed to seat into.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/26a46c70.jpg

Here's the fork slid into the fork bottom and bushing part way into the groove.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/ca7708e9.jpg

This is about as far as it wants to go without some persuading. Notice there's a split in the bushing. That means the bushing is slightly larger than the groove in the fork bottom and is designed to hold itself in place with spring tension. The split will close up when the bushing is in place.

Now take whatever you're using for a seal installation tool -- a piece of PVC or something fancy -- and use it to tap the bushing into the groove. You can have the seal and washer completely off the fork or, if you like, you can have the washer on top of the bushing to spread the load from the tool. The bushing looks like this when it's in place.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/110d3158.jpg

When the bushing is fully seated, the seal goes in with just a little pressure and the retaining clip pops right in. If you have to pound the seal in, the bushing isn't fully seated.

And don't forget the little cap that goes in the end of the fork.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by 2whlthrpy on 04/03/11 at 07:45:05

Very nice pics and explanation of an complicated but do-able job. Hats off to Motorbudda for breaking this down. I was going to replace the seals in my 250gz but found a set of forks on ebay with good seals for 10$. I did much research on how to do this and none of them broke it down to the basics.  +1  8-)

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 04/03/11 at 18:35:56

Motobuddha, I'll try it.

How do you like the $3 fork seal tool?  Besides it being so stinkin' cheap, you don't even have to cut or shape it in anyway.  Maybe in the PVC rack at Lowe's the label should say something like, "PVC 1.5" diameter plumbing pipe and fork seal install tool."

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by MotoBuddha on 04/03/11 at 19:33:50

What you might want to do with the PVC is chamfer the inside diameter a bit to allow room for the lip on the inside of the seal. You don't want to crush it. Chamfer one end and leave the other end as is to use on the bushing.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 04/04/11 at 02:11:55

Great minds think alike!!  I had already done that.  I happened to notice the pipe was made very precisely.  It had an exactly perpendicular end that had nice sharp edges on the inside and outside edges.  I rounded off the inside edge (approx 1/16" chamfer) of one end so as not to damage the seal.  I was "fixin" to post something about this,... you beat me to it.

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Gyrobob on 04/16/11 at 07:12:21

The PVC fork seal tool works perfectly. I just did all four fork tubes on the two LS650s.  Actually tapping in the bushings and seals takes less than a minute each, and the close fit of the cheapo PVC tool keeps the seal or bushing in proper alignment.  

Be gentle.  I used a candy hammer.  Not much force required at all.  When tapping them in, grab the top of the fork and the PVC pipe with one hand so you can feel the slight movement of the tool pressing the bushing or seal in with each tap.

Leave one end of the PVC tool with crisp edges inside and out.  This end works well on seating the bushing.

Chamfer one inside edge about 1/8" at the other end of the PVC pipe.  Use this end to seat the seal.  If you leave the edge sharp on the inside, it might damage the seal.

Another couple of tips: 1. The Clymer book could be misinterpreted in the way it explains how to orient the seal when you put it back on the tube.  Just make sure you orient the seal as shown in the pics here, which should be the same way the seal was oriented when you disassembled the fork tube. 2. Clean off the spring clip (that holds in the seal) really well.  On my Buddy’s forks, the clips were so mucky they probably wouldn’t have seated in the groove.  If the spring clip is at all rusty, replace it.  Also, clean out the spring clip groove well – both of ours had muck in the groove which would have bothered the proper seating of the clip as well.  Not surprising on decade old bikes.

Wish the RYCA stuff would arrive!

Now, on with the other stuff up here -- brake bleeding, wheel truing, rotor deglazing, etc.  It's amazing the stuff you discover you need to do when you start trying to build something using an old donor bike!

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by Digger on 08/03/11 at 19:27:48


7D5F445F724554545851300 wrote:
.....Notice there's a split in the bushing. That means the bushing is slightly larger than the groove in the fork bottom and is designed to hold itself in place with spring tension. The split will close up when the bushing is in place.

Now take whatever you're using for a seal installation tool -- a piece of PVC or something fancy -- and use it to tap the bushing into the groove. You can have the seal and washer completely off the fork or, if you like, you can have the washer on top of the bushing to spread the load from the tool.......



Here is another way to drive that bushing back into its groove (I posted this on my Gold Wing forum a few years back):


"The last time I cleaned up the forks, I made a drift out of 1/4" aluminum rod to assist in seating the upper fork bushing:


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/ForkBushingDrift-1E.jpg


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/ForkBushingDrift-2E.jpg


I filed that flat spot on the end of the rod so that the end of the rod would fit down into the space the bushing is driven into. I bent the end of the rod so that I would not strike the fork tube while I was tapping on the end of the rod."

Title: Re: Replace/renew fork seals, post pics
Post by verslagen1 on 07/28/14 at 13:37:22


4F594E534B5E53483C0 wrote:
Try cleaning the seals first... most seals aren't actually blown...
They just have grit under the seal...
There is a cheap tool for this, or you can make one from a pop bottle in 1 minute...

I just had a really bad gusher... and fixed it in 1 minute with a sliver of a soda bottle...
... or, if you aren't into cutting soda bottles... buy these guys plastic tool...


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wlzfoVroSY[/media]

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